JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Reichmarshal]

Islamic republic of Pakistan provide these planes to Lebanon and Syria so that they can defend themselves from our enemies otherwise keep playing with your toys.

Both are sold-out pupit govts....who have little to no control 5 miles outside the presidential palaces.....that's too would disappear without the help of their masters

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Awwad]

Islamic republic of Pakistan provide these planes to Lebanon and Syria so that they can defend themselves from our enemies otherwise keep playing with your toys.

I think you need to first ask about basic weapons, artillery shells / shoulder fired SAMs, anti-tank missiles etc. Can Pakistan even give such weapons to these countries ?? Not a chance.

Iran provides these countries with weapons. Pakistan is not Iran, its totally dependent country on so many things, just cannot afford to annoy the US or invite sanctions.

Secondly, fighter aircrafts are a platform that needs whole system in place, you need trained pilots, then airmen to maintain the aircraft, weapons and then network of radars, you will even need AWACS and other components like EW support to fight a proper enemy with very powerful air force. So its not possible to do that. More importantly you don't have to do all that in the area where strength of the enemy lies.

So instead fighter aircrafts, you can give them suicide drones, missiles, shoulder fired SAMs, and stuff like that is highly mobile, can be concealed underground or anywhere. But the thing is Pakistan will not do even this. Because there is no will and no capacity to annoy the masters of the world.

 

[Awwad]

You will provide the pilots?

You can give Lebanon and Syrians f22 and they will still manage to get them destroyed at tarmac

They need to make professional institutes and train professionals first

Agree, giving JF-17s to Syria / Lenanon is not practical at all. But there is a more primitive question that we need to ask ourselves, Can Pakistan even give small weapons like machine guns, artillery shells, drones or stuff like that ? (All the stuff which Iran supplies to these countries) Nope! Pakistan will not even do that for obvious reasons. So discussing giving Jf-17s is pointless anyways.

 

[Mrc]

Agree, giving JF-17s to Syria / Lenanon is not practical at all. But there is a more primitive question that we need to ask ourselves, Can Pakistan even give small weapons like machine guns, artillery shells, drones or stuff like that ? (All the stuff which Iran supplies to these countries) Nope! Pakistan will not even do that for obvious reasons. So discussing giving Jf-17s is pointless anyways.

What makes you think their regular armies are any different from their airforce?

They are most welcome to buy but do u think their leaders have guts to do that??

Hisbullah is an Iranian proxy and gets what's it need from iran

 

[Awwad]

What makes you think their regular armies are any different from their airforce?

They are most welcome to buy but do u think their leaders have guts to do that??

Hisbullah is an Iranian proxy and gets what's it need from iran

That's what I am saying that Iran supplies them in face of Israeli agressions. If Hezbullah leader or even Syrian leader wants to buy drones or anything from Pakistan, I really don't think Pakistan would do that.

Bottomline is giving even basic weapons to any country that is opposing Israel at the moment is out of question for Pakistan. A totally dependent nation cannot make independent decisions. Simple is that.

 

[Mrc]

That's what I am saying that Iran supplies them in face of Israeli agressions. If Hezbullah leader or even Syrian leader wants to buy drones or anything from Pakistan, I really don't think Pakistan would do that.

Bottomline is giving even basic weapons to any country that is opposing Israel at the moment is out of question for Pakistan. A totally dependent nation cannot make independent decisions. Simple is that.

Jft has been on offer to Egypt for a decade with aesa radar and long range air to air missiles which would have been a potent headache for. Israel

Even was offered joint production

They have instead bought toothless f16s without aesa or aim 120 missiles which are sitting ducks for Israelis
Same with their Rafael no air to air missiles

Lebanon and Syria are not equipped to operate a motor bike properly

And hizb is a guerilla proxy

What and whom do you want to supply and what??

 

[Awwad]

Jft has been on offer to Egypt for a decade with aesa radar and long range air to air missiles which would have been a potent headache for. Israel

Even was offered joint production

They have instead bought toothless f16s without aesa or aim 120 missiles which are sitting ducks for Israelis
Same with their Rafael no air to air missiles

Lebanon and Syria are not equipped to operate a motor bike properly

And hizb is a guerilla proxy

What and whom do you want to supply and what??

It does not matter if Hezbullah is iranian proxy. They are engaging against Israelis on daily basis at israel's northern border. A Genocide is happening in Gaza. Shelters & hospitals are bombed, mass murder of children is happening, The Lebanon based Hezbullah is just trying to put pressure on Israel with their limited capabilities to end the massacre of Palestinians. They have said if Israel ends the genocide they will stop their attacks too. The point is whether Pakistan will give or sell anything to them if asked. You know the answer yourself.

Hezbullah has significant amount of drones, missiles, rockets and other stuff ready for a fullscale war or to stop Israel's aggression / invasion if they decide to go against Lebanon. Syria too has significant ground based forces. Its not correct to say that they can't even operate a bike. The point is not that. Whole basis of discussion was based on hypothetical scenario which still stands there. What if tomorrow, Hezbullah or Syrian leaders ask Pakistan for military hardware even if they are willing to pay, Pakistan simply won't sell anything. We all are aware of the obvious reasons for it.

As far as Egypt is concerned, I was specifically talking about countries / entities which are anti-israel or do engage against Israel. Egpyt is not the same Egypt which it was in 70's. Its now totally US / Israeli aligned country.

Let's not expand the topic, we can do this discussion on another topic. My point is simple Pakistan's current stance is clear. It won't go against US / Israeli interests at all. Selling any weapons to any entity that is actively engaging Israel is out of question. You know that too a dependent country cannot make decisions which can have repercussions.

 

[Mrc]

It does not matter if Hezbullah is iranian proxy. They are engaging against Israelis on daily basis at israel's northern border. A Genocide is happening in Gaza. Shelters & hospitals are bombed, mass murder of children is happening, The Lebanon based Hezbullah is just trying to put pressure on Israel with their limited capabilities to end the massacre of Palestinians. They have said if Israel ends the genocide they will stop their attacks too. The point is whether Pakistan will give or sell anything to them if asked. You know the answer yourself.

Hezbullah has significant amount of drones, missiles, rockets and other stuff ready for a fullscale war or to stop Israel's aggression / invasion if they decide to go against Lebanon. Syria too has significant ground based forces. Its not correct to say that they can't even operate a bike. The point is not that. Whole basis of discussion was based on hypothetical scenario which still stands there. What if tomorrow, Hezbullah or Syrian leaders ask Pakistan for military hardware even if they are willing to pay, Pakistan simply won't sell anything. We all are aware of the obvious reasons for it.

As far as Egypt is concerned, I was specifically talking about countries / entities which are anti-israel or do engage against Israel. Egpyt is not the same Egypt which it was in 70's. Its now totally US / Israeli aligned country.

Let's not expand the topic, we can do this discussion on another topic. My point is simple Pakistan's current stance is clear. It won't go against US / Israeli interests at all. Selling any weapons to any entity that is actively engaging Israel is out of question. You know that too a dependent country cannot make decisions which can have repercussions.

Pak has or very close to signing up jft deal with Iraq, also regularly supplies Saudi and uae, also has close cooperation with Turkey

Hizbullah are practically iranian proxies and a non state organization, it gets what it need from Iran

I personally would oppose pakistan supporting non state organizations and states where supplying weapons may anger Turkey (in case of Syria)


But let's leave it at that for now

Its not as simple as your theoretical scenario suggests, there is alot more at play even than US

 

[Awwad]

Pak has or very close to signing up jft deal with Iraq, also regularly supplies Saudi and uae, also has close cooperation with Turkey

I agree to all that. Iraq is not a threat to Israel, so no problem selling anything to it. KSA, UAE & Turkey are all allies of US and have some sort of relations with Israel too, so absolutely no prob in selling anything or doing any activity with these nations too.

BTW, Our defense cooperation with KSA / UAE is declining over the years. PAF actually trained UAEAF when it was created, PAF air marshals lead their airforce but now that level of collaboration is gone. IMO, Pakistan should have obtained monetary benefits by continuing with even greator collaboration. But that hasn't happened. They don't give Pakistan any value any more.

The whole basis of discussion was started by a member, who wanted to "help" the countries that are facing israeli aggression frequently. Those are Lebanon & Syria. The point is that Pakistan won't sell even artillery shells or small arms to these nations because it will annoy US. I am not saying should Pakistan help these countries or not. I am just stating the policy regardless of any "wishes".

I personally would oppose pakistan supporting non state organizations and states

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that Pakistan should help Hezbullah or not. I was just stating the fact, that even if Hezbullah or Lebanon, OR syria asks for military equipment, then Pakistan won't give it. Pakistan state's policy is to appease the US, its not otherwise.

But let's leave it at that for now

Yep. Let's get back to the thread.

 

[Reichmarshal]

I agree to all that. Iraq is not a threat to Israel, so no problem selling anything to it. KSA, UAE & Turkey are all allies of US and have some sort of relations with Israel too, so absolutely no prob in selling anything or doing any activity with these nations too.

BTW, Our defense cooperation with KSA / UAE is declining over the years. PAF actually trained UAEAF when it was created, PAF air marshals lead their airforce but now that level of collaboration is gone. IMO, Pakistan should have obtained monetary benefits by continuing with even greator collaboration. But that hasn't happened. They don't give Pakistan any value any more.

The whole basis of discussion was started by a member, who wanted to "help" the countries that are facing israeli aggression frequently. Those are Lebanon & Syria. The point is that Pakistan won't sell even artillery shells or small arms to these nations because it will annoy US. I am not saying should Pakistan help these countries or not. I am just stating the policy regardless of any "wishes".



Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that Pakistan should help Hezbullah or not. I was just stating the fact, that even if Hezbullah or Lebanon, OR syria asks for military equipment, then Pakistan won't give it. Pakistan state's policy is to appease the US, its not otherwise.



Yep. Let's get back to the thread.

The reason why usa/france/Britain r still in most of the gulf states is that their intention all along was to make these khaleeji arabs dependent n subservient to them in all fields.....hence they r their even today in most management/advisory positions.
PAF mistake was they were their to built airforces n to train them in such a way that they eventually become self-sufficient n independent......same is the case every where else PAF went

 

[MS Sandhu]

It does not matter if Hezbullah is iranian proxy. They are engaging against Israelis on daily basis at israel's northern border

HZ is a Iranian Proxy.We should not support it.However,if Lebanese Govt asks us for help,then certainly we should help in the best possible capacity.
Engaging with Israel or not,at the end of day HZ is Iranian Proxy force for her geopolitical goals.

 

[Oscar]

Can we return to the JF-17 from the pan Islamic fantasies?

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

PAF Pakistan Aeronautical Complex JF-17A Thunder Block II armed with x4 Mk. 82 laser-guided precision munitions and x2 PL-5EII IR-guided air-to-air missiles, plus an ASELPOD EO/IR targeting pod.

 

[ghazi52]