JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[RajaBaja]

It’s not about attachment - its about infrastructure and investment (monetary, logistical, personnel, tactics etc) that are associated with the platform.

Same reason why B-52 outlasted the B-1. The much derided “love affair” with the F-16 had very valid reasons. The JF-17 has some of it but not that substantial because unlike the F-16 nothing prevents PAF from making more or changing anything they want on the JF-17. And the infrastructure bought for it is fully reusable for something new.

I agree with majority of your comments. But I do know there existed significant bias towards the F-16.

Otherwise back in the 80's and 90's, financially, we were much better and could've joined some other projects or build our own even. Regardless, we need to focus on having numbers within some years of 4.5 and 5th gen.

 

[Oscar]

I agree with majority of your comments. But I do know there existed significant bias towards the F-16.

Otherwise back in the 80's and 90's, financially, we were much better and could've joined some other projects or build our own even. Regardless, we need to focus on having numbers within some years of 4.5 and 5th gen.

You cannot blame the F-16 for it - it really is a very very good all-in-one package

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

He is our resident Najam Sethi with his چڑیا . Don’t always doubt him.

At least Najam Sethi's predicted timelines are mostly correct, I don't know how many of @MastanKhan 's mastani timelines have come to fruition to date

@MastanKhan, was it yoursrlf who once predicted the American F-35s will be inducted into the PAF? I vaguely remember someone started a threat with that kind of title.

 

[Toxic]

JF-17 should be done! It's a 2000's airframe with limits, but a great workhorse! We need to not repeat F-16 attachment again. Time to move on to more advanced jets.

Oscar - Hope you are well. Seeing so many old names after years.

How do you suggest it should done? We neither have the budget nor the technical expertise to pull of a domestic replacement for the JF-17, the Chinese aren't willing to develop a new light fighter as they are already moving away from the J-10 plus are marketing it for export so they don't want more competition.

The Turks are marketing the Hurjet as a light fighter plus developing the KAAN as their next gen F-16 replacement so they don't have need for different fighter.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

JF-17 should be done! It's a 2000's airframe with limits, but a great workhorse! We need to not repeat F-16 attachment again. Time to move on to more advanced jets. ...

Which lightweight and more advanced fighter jet is available to Pakistan?

 

[RajaBaja]

How do you suggest it should done? We neither have the budget nor the technical expertise to pull of a domestic replacement for the JF-17, the Chinese aren't willing to develop a new light fighter as they are already moving away from the J-10 plus are marketing it for export so they don't want more competition.

The Turks are marketing the Hurjet as a light fighter plus developing the KAAN as their next gen F-16 replacement so they don't have need for different fighter.

We have the budget! We don't have as much as we want to. The budget will need to see more spike next 2 years until we purchase these assets in batches, that's one time cost. Israel is near 50% its GDP for 2025-2026 for one time acquisition of weapons.

Acquiring J-10C's/J-35's and HQ-19 is one time cost. Could be done with a handsome down payment and soft loans that can be paid from the budget allocation in 3-4 installments and that's very favorable.

India also attacked at this time because they know from 2028, we'd change significantly in terms of economy. So we'll all see relief from 2028 onwards.

 

[RajaBaja]

Which lightweight and more advanced fighter jet is available to Pakistan?

Time to move on from "light weights". See my response above.

 

[RajaBaja]

You cannot blame the F-16 for it - it really is a very very good all-in-one package

Never deny -16's lethality and capability. It's a marvel from the 80's and still relevant for some nations. Issue is that our threat environment has changed and local industry is necessary with a mix of higher capability from China.

 

[rafale]

I agree with majority of your comments. But I do know there existed significant bias towards the F-16.

Otherwise back in the 80's and 90's, financially, we were much better and could've joined some other projects or build our own even. Regardless, we need to focus on having numbers within some years of 4.5 and 5th gen.

we were financially better in 80s only because of $$$ coming from the americans to fight the soviets......and lenient loan terms for weapons.....and also the laundered $$$ via BCCI and GCC nations who were under hand financing some of the nuclear activities for Pakistan.......

90s was a total bankrupt time for Pakistan........a reason why Pakistan opened up its power generation market to IPPs.......because there was no money to finance building new power plants or industries let alone weapons purchases.

 

[RajaBaja]

we were financially better in 80s only because of $$$ coming from the americans to fight the soviets......and lenient loan terms for weapons.....and also the laundered $$$ via BCCI and GCC nations who were under hand financing some of the nuclear activities for Pakistan.......

90s was a total bankrupt time for Pakistan........a reason why Pakistan opened up its power generation market to IPPs.......because there was no money to finance building new power plants or industries let alone weapons purchases.

Pakistani economy was better off in the 90's than since 2016. Value of currency was much higher, debt much less. Local businesses thriving. American sanctions didn't shake us, until after India's 1998 nuclear tests and their goals about Pakistan. Without BVR and grounded F-16's shook us hard but it was a little too late. A couple of billions in early 90's wasn't an issue to start building a local fighter jet.

Duty of national security related people is to always plan 10 years ahead from today. Like we today, inducting JF-17 block III but focused on 5th gen, loyal wingman, etc, planning for 2030's.

Lastly, a government has NO reason to be running businesses, whether power generation, or airlines or banks. That's what free market, investors and businessmen do. Opening up IPP's was to start bringing in FDI like how it's in every country.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Time to move on from "light weights". See my response above.

Well, you're not going to use a heavy goods vehicle for your daily school run.

Light-weights are required to patrol the skies everyday during war and peace time.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

But they have quantity? and we have alot of legacy fighters? we only have around 50 (J17C+J10CE) why stopping now atleast make these 4.5 to reach atleast 100? they have Su30MKI around 250 and they are upgrading them to super sukhoi plus now they have Rafale. Like what really changes the PAF strategy all sudden ? are they hoping for medium or heavy 4.5++ gen now?

India will always have quantity advantage over us because of the economic disparity. An economy of 220 million cannot match 1:1 the economy of 1.4 billion people.

This is what builds a naturally defensive posture, also the difference in land mass, India has a lot of strategic depth to retreat to in the rear which becomes difficult for us to target, while our geography is thin and we are exposed to easy targeting.

I believe the CAS once said we would maintain a ratio of 1:3 aircraft between PAF:IAF. Eventually those older systems you see will be slowly be replaced by modern systems like new JF-17s, or J-10Cs, or in the future J-35s.

 

[MastanKhan]

JF-17 should be done! It's a 2000's airframe with limits, but a great workhorse! We need to not repeat F-16 attachment again. Time to move on to more advanced jets.

Oscar - Hope you are well. Seeing so many old names after years.

Hi,

All american, swedish, english, russian, chinese 4 & 4.5 gen aircraft have airframes going back to 90's onwards.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

India will always have quantity advantage over us because of the economic disparity. An economy of 220 million cannot match 1:1 the economy of 1.4 billion people.

This is what builds a naturally defensive posture, also the difference in land mass, India has a lot of strategic depth to retreat to in the rear which becomes difficult for us to target, while our geography is thin and we are exposed to easy targeting.

I believe the CAS once said we would maintain a ratio of 1:3 aircraft between PAF:IAF. Eventually those older systems you see will be slowly be replaced by modern systems like new JF-17s, or J-10Cs, or in the future J-35s.

I was not saying to increase numbers. Wont that be good we maintain the 1:3 but as now we can produce indegenously we should produce JF17C until we replace all legacy aircrafts especially miraj and F7. We stopped very early. I remember the hype, enthusiasm before JF17 block3 aesa and Pl-15. There seems some drastic change in our strategy that we stopped them at 30 instead of atleast producing 50? But why these strategy or what has been changed?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think PAF will focus on international orders for JF17 Block III

• Azerbaijan Order, 40 planes ($4.6 Billion USD)
• JF17 Apla (Prototype), local need

May be another Juicy order from another customer would be welcomed for 40-80 planes if an order gets placed

Seems like the existing fleet of JF17 Block I , Block II and Block III is doing well so far, might be just standardizing all models to same standard