JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

The WS-21 engine and the RD-93MA engine are like cousins with the same bloodline.

Russia's development path:RD-33......RD-93......RD-93MA​

China's development path: RD-33......WS-13......WS-21​

Yes. They share a common ancestor.
A recently unveiled scale model of the WS-21 engine reveals changes to its internal structure.
Comparing the two engines' performance figures is meaningless. Generally speaking, the two engines' performance figures are comparable. The difference lies in the WS-21's greater technological transfer from next-generation engines (derived from the WS-19/WS-15).

But one thing is certain: the WS-21 engine is significantly more expensive than the RD-93.

The price of the RD-93 engine has been fluctuating due to international factors. Its actual transaction price has fluctuated between $2.5 million and $5 million.
Pakistan previously purchased a WS-21 engine from China. The price is 100 million RMB, or approximately $14-16 million USD. Since this order is for a single engine and its intended purpose is unclear, we cannot estimate the price of the WS-21 engine in a bulk order. However, this would still represent a significant price difference. (The WS-21 engine uses too many expensive specialty materials and next-generation engine technologies, which has caused its manufacturing costs to soar)

Thus, if subsequent versions of the JF-17 adopt the WS-21 engine, the final price of the entire fighter jet would approach that of the J-10CE, making it completely uncompetitive in the market.

are you sure about WS-21 price between 14-16million? that is almost half the price of JF-17 block 3? i dont think these engine will be that much expensive? does WS-21 have more power generation i mean electricity conversion ? from WS-13? or its life has been extended? or it has some stealth features? why are WS-21 so much expensive than WS-13 ?

 

[gamaji]

so this is meaningless and a nothingburger.

Your claims (i.e. because JF-17C was unable to secure a kill on May 7th and so it is incapable of firing PL-15E) are speculative at best. You apparently have no evidence whatsoever to support your speculation.

The reality is that Pakistan procured PL-15s several years ago (much before the arrival of J-10C in Pakistan) to be used with JF-17C. You don't see a picture of a Thunder with PL-15 doesn't really mean that these two are not mated.

 

[Ak01]

Bhai please chinese members pay torha hath hola rakho? chalo beshak wo profit kama rahay ho laikin aik yahi tau hai jo humain kuch acha de tau raha? iss waqt defence army, airforce and navy sab inn pay totally dependent hai..kyun in chinese member ko pakistaniyo say bad dil kar rahay? guzara karo..

masla ye hai, kay unh ka attitude aisa he ke humaray upar ehsaan kar rahey hai, kohi chanda de rahey hain lol.

 

[Ak01]

Your claims (i.e. because JF-17C was unable to secure a kill on May 7th and so it is incapable of firing PL-15E) are speculative at best. You apparently have no evidence whatsoever to support your speculation.

The reality is that Pakistan procured PL-15s several years ago (much before the arrival of J-10C in Pakistan) to be used with JF-17C. You don't see a picture of a Thunder with PL-15 doesn't really mean that these two are not mated.

all we speak about is based off of speculation, theres things that indicate it, whether you decide to be blind to it is on you.

Claiming PL-15s were in country prior to J-10s is just laughable though.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

masla ye hai, kay unh ka attitude aisa he ke humaray upar ehsaan kar rahey hai, kohi chanda de rahey hain lol.

bhai jab tak hum indegenously khud ye sab nay bana laitay na esaa tau hona hai.. mera manna hai kay tab tak saber rakho aur aaram say apni internal capability barhao.. yahan tak kay dependence minimum ho jaaye..saath economy bahter karo and then phir esi baatain kartay raho..laikin tab tak chorh do yara..na bad dil karo inko i would suggest.

 

[Ak01]

bhai jab tak hum indegenously khud ye sab nay bana laitay na esaa tau hona hai.. mera manna hai kay tab tak saber rakho aur aaram say apni internal capability barhao.. yahan tak kay dependence minimum ho jaaye..saath economy bahter karo and then phir esi baatain kartay raho..laikin tab tak chorh do yara..na bad dil karo inko i would suggest.

arms sales are arms sales, the US would sell us arms, Europe would too, South Korea, Turkey...etc, the list goes on.

Its like saying the shopkeeper is doing you a favour by selling you milk because you dont have your own cow.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

arms sales are arms sales, the US would sell us arms, Europe would too, South Korea, Turkey...etc, the list goes on.

Its like saying the shopkeeper is doing you a favour by selling you milk because you dont have your own cow.

yahan do baatain hain.. aik tau latest achay weapons chahiye wo ya tau USA ya china say mil saktay.. aur rahi baat USA ki wo kambakht muslim countries ko nahi deta yaar.. turkey ko patriot nahi de raha tha aur phir s400 pay f-35 ko rokh liya.. unka chaheeta israel kay mukablay ka weapons kisi b muslim country ko nahi dega wo.. bas yahi china bachta hai agar musalmano nay aur west say maar khanay say bachna hai tau.. nahi tau pichlay sau saalon say musalmaan zaleel hi ho rahain west say

 

[gamaji]

very plausible but now the question come to my mind is if we have to take a moving target on ground the air launched missile integration must also be harder? thanks for the knowledge though.

you are right what @arslank01 is saying is for PAF JF-17 Block3 the integration may not be there which is purely his speculation based on business model. and which may not be accurate as well thats just his assumption based on why there was no kill associated with JF-17 block 3 on 7 may. yes the AVIC version may have integrated and testing PL-15. but your last paragraph makes sense maybe we have some older initial versions of PL-15 integrated with JF-17 block 3.

Bhai please chinese members pay torha hath hola rakho? chalo beshak wo profit kama rahay ho laikin aik yahi tau hai jo humain kuch acha de tau raha? iss waqt defence army, airforce and navy sab inn pay totally dependent hai..kyun in chinese member ko pakistaniyo say bad dil kar rahay? guzara karo..

You never know, it may very well be all on purpose. People living in the west might be acting as a tool of the west to create a wedge between the two iron brothers. I am sure Chinese friends understand that. Afterall, all these are 'personal' views.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

You never know, it may very well be all on purpose. People living in the west might be acting as a tool of the west to create a wedge between the two iron brothers. I am sure Chinese friends understand that. Afterall, all these are 'personal' views.

bhai kya kahoon ab.. even humaray opar jo betay jo iss mulk ko chala rahay wo b west kay hi fan hai.. aaway ka aawa hi bigrha huwa yahan..

 

[gamaji]

all we speak about is based off of speculation, theres things that indicate it, whether you decide to be blind to it is on you.

Claiming PL-15s were in country prior to J-10s is just laughable though.

Let's laugh together at Janes then.

Update: Pakistan shows JF-17 Block III fitted with PL-15 missiles for first time

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has published video imagery showing, for the first time, a JF-17 Block III fighter aircraft armed with the long-range PL-15...

www.janes.com

 

[m52k85]

@arslank01 and @Quwa , you both are preferring PAF's intention vis-a-vis the Pl-12AE and its show case mock-ups with existing missiles found under the hard points of both Chinese and Pakistan Jf-17 block-3s. No one knows the radar and integeration details enough to say the Pl-15 is not deployable from the Jf-17. The likely case is that it the Pl-15 variants are less effective on a Jf-17 than a J-10C, so they will naturally appear with platform that is able to exploit the weapon better. Much like how early Amraams while fireable from the old upgraded APG-66s, you would not do so if you had Block-C with APG-68.

Does this mean their so no value in Pl-15 carrying capability on Jf-17? The answer is clearly no. It still allows you to reach and touch further out than any other A2A missile on Jf-17 (all Pl-12 and variants included). It gives the PAF options in case of a higher tempo op compared to Sindoor.

So, I dont know what you guys are upto, when you say Jf-17 and Pl-15 was only cheap propaganda.

 

[m52k85]

@arslank01 and @Quwa , continuing, I do agree with your assessment on where the Jf-17 program stands though, but this is more due to the changing external factors, both threat matrix and better options available thanks to Chinese success in bringing their various munition, platform and powerplant programs to fruitition. Unfortunately, our establishment is about to learn cutting edge tech is way more expesive than what they are used to, and their habbit of hanging on with last few cents will no longer cut it.

 

[Ak01]

Let's laugh together at Janes then.

Update: Pakistan shows JF-17 Block III fitted with PL-15 missiles for first time

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has published video imagery showing, for the first time, a JF-17 Block III fighter aircraft armed with the long-range PL-15...

www.janes.com

sure- janes has over the years become dubious in credibility- varies wildly between authors, janes' primary focus is not on defense news...

 

[Ak01]

@arslank01 and @Quwa , you both are preferring PAF's intention vis-a-vis the Pl-12AE and its show case mock-ups with existing missiles found under the hard points of both Chinese and Pakistan Jf-17 block-3s. No one knows the radar and integeration details enough to say the Pl-15 is not deployable from the Jf-17. The likely case is that it the Pl-15 variants are less effective on a Jf-17 than a J-10C, so they will naturally appear with platform that is able to exploit the weapon better. Much like how early Amraams while fireable from the old upgraded APG-66s, you would not do so if you had Block-C with APG-68.

Does this mean their so no value in Pl-15 carrying capability on Jf-17? The answer is clearly no. It still allows you to reach and touch further out than any other A2A missile on Jf-17 (all Pl-12 and variants included). It gives the PAF options in case of a higher tempo op compared to Sindoor.

So, I dont know what you guys are upto, when you say Jf-17 and Pl-15 was only cheap propaganda.

you've missed the mark mate- what i was saying was the video released by the PAF was only cheap propaganda, which i wholeheartedly stand by btw, if anyone can show me a single PL-15 on a JF-17 flying, ill eat my words- theres no operational sensitivity and crews will need to train carrying CATM's, where are they doing this?

Our photographers are constantly keeping an eye on PAF bases, if it had ever happened, theyd have seen, after all, they caught raad on jf-17 years ago and had their shit wiped

 

[m52k85]

you've missed the mark mate- what i was saying was the video released by the PAF was only cheap propaganda, which i wholeheartedly stand by btw, if anyone can show me a single PL-15 on a JF-17 flying, ill eat my words- theres no operational sensitivity and crews will need to train carrying CATM's, where are they doing this?

Our photographers are constantly keeping an eye on PAF bases, if it had ever happened, theyd have seen, after all, they caught raad on jf-17 years ago and had their shit wiped

All I can say is I will bookmark your post, you are being far too certain about things that are usually hard to say.