Jinnah Class Frigate | Updates & Discussion

[Bentley777]

The PN's time has come. 2026-2027 will see Gwadar port getting activated. Offshore Oil drilling infrastructure to start it's phase 1.

The Chinese have asked us to protect their and our trade. Or, they can come assist also. The PM has asked the Naval Chief to submit a detailed plan with current acquisition requirements.

That means we'll be inducting over next 10 years, a total fleet of over 50 combat ships including new frigates and destroyers. There will be a dedicated air arm, may be like two squadrons for PN, in addition to the PAF's support that's given to PN today.

Should be 100 combat ships by 2035-2040 also induct SLBM capable subs and as india inducts rafale M the navy should have new 2 sqs of j10c dedicated for only navy role and purposes. Also the destroyers should be armed with at least 96 vls to fire supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile as well our smash and p282 our need is more firepower from less ships. This should be our goal till 2040-2045.

 

[Oscar]

Should be 100 combat ships by 2035-2040 also induct SLBM capable subs and as india inducts rafale M the navy should have new 2 sqs of j10c dedicated for only navy role and purposes. Also the destroyers should be armed with at least 96 vls to fire supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile as well our smash and p282 our need is more firepower from less ships. This should be our goal till 2040-2045.

I didnt know those oil reserves were worth $10 trillion and everyone else including the Gulf shut off their exports.

 

[Quwa]

There's no official data. I had searched a lot. However, there was one interview in PTV world, in which retired rear admiral had said about Milgem project as 4+1. 4 ships from turkey with ToT, while 1 (JCF) will be built with local design and stuff in-house.

But I think, we will have a follow up order after first JCF. Not sure how many. Maybe upto 4 or atleast 2.

IMO...

...PN will likely make a hard pivot to depending much more on submarines than planned pre-2025. Surface vessels help build presence, but right now, the threat is trying to break our door down. Submarines will help the PN push the IN more on the defensive by forcing them to take ASW much more seriously, especially if the IN perceives an enemy sub risk closer to India.

JCFs will come, but I'm not sure if the PN will invest in enlarging it or anything. They're likely happy with the design as-is. Going bigger will come at a cost, and not just financial. A bigger platform needs more defensive means, so some of that additional firepower is there to defend the ship. How much can the PN realistically afford on top of that to gain capability? In that sense, more submarines would have a greater impact.

 

[Oscar]

IMO...

...PN will likely make a hard pivot to depending much more on submarines than planned pre-2025. Surface vessels help build presence, but right now, the threat is trying to break our door down. Submarines will help the PN push the IN more on the defensive by forcing them to take ASW much more seriously, especially if the IN perceives an enemy sub risk closer to India.

JCFs will come, but I'm not sure if the PN will invest in enlarging it or anything. They're likely happy with the design as-is. Going bigger will come at a cost, and not just financial. A bigger platform needs more defensive means, so some of that additional firepower is there to defend the ship. How much can the PN realistically afford on top of that to gain capability? In that sense, more submarines would have a greater impact.

IN has made multiple attempts from 2016 onwards to find routes around Pakistan SLOC and EEZ to create blockade and potentially be able to station CM and even BM equipped systems at the flank of Pakistan's posture.
So far they have not been able to do so without either falling afoul of PN or ending up afoul of other countries not interested in playing host to an Indian Kalvari or Akula in their waters.

This is what is driving the sub and UUV push along with the now active net which reportedly extends in detection coverage well beyond expected IN approaches. Impressive considering the nature of the environment.

 

[RajaBaja]

Should be 100 combat ships by 2035-2040 also induct SLBM capable subs and as india inducts rafale M the navy should have new 2 sqs of j10c dedicated for only navy role and purposes. Also the destroyers should be armed with at least 96 vls to fire supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile as well our smash and p282 our need is more firepower from less ships. This should be our goal till 2040-2045.

You have a really long list. We have to grow per our economy. The sooner we can hit a trillion, the better it is. If we go on the higher end, we'll need 3% defense budget of the GDP. That's $ 30 billion. Between $ 20 and $ 30 billion is a good number for us because in a few years, India will have hit $ 100 billion. Currently they are at $ 80 and we are just on $ 6 billion. So 1/3rd is needed. When we achieve that, at that time we will further grow our navy because our trade will require proper protection.

Until then, 50 combat ships including destroyers and VLS configured frigates, backed by 8-12 long range hypersonic or supersonic missile attack subs will do the job.

 

[arjunk]

Should be 100 combat ships by 2035-2040 also induct SLBM capable subs and as india inducts rafale M the navy should have new 2 sqs of j10c dedicated for only navy role and purposes. Also the destroyers should be armed with at least 96 vls to fire supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile as well our smash and p282 our need is more firepower from less ships. This should be our goal till 2040-2045.

PN should remain a submarine-heavy force.

 

[PakistaniDefender]

PN should remain a submarine-heavy force.

We need destroyers like Type 052Ds as well for air defense

 

[Bentley777]

I didnt know those oil reserves were worth $10 trillion and everyone else including the Gulf shut off their exports.

The demand is according to keeping in mind the adversary its not a wish list. Indian Ship building is good they are making destroyers and frigates every year and what are we doing got some type 54 and sleeping only good news was hangoor 8 subs. PN should make after JCF type 52 destoyers at good pace at karachi ship yard so its cost effective. No point inducting 4 5 type 52 d destroyers. Also we should get 4 milden subs too from turkey then we should move forward to SLBM capable subs

 

[Bentley777]

PN should remain a submarine-heavy force.

Thats a good strategy too.

 

[Waz]

PN should remain a submarine-heavy force.

Nah way too much pressure on the submarine crews. I wrote a long piece about this back in 2003. It's not a viable strategy in the face of fast developing ASW, and also limits strikes options. You need a decent surface fleet to defend your waters. Pakistan's largest urban metropolis sits on the sea, to leave that to ambush subs is far too great of a risk.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

IMO...

...PN will likely make a hard pivot to depending much more on submarines than planned pre-2025. Surface vessels help build presence, but right now, the threat is trying to break our door down. Submarines will help the PN push the IN more on the defensive by forcing them to take ASW much more seriously, especially if the IN perceives an enemy sub risk closer to India.

JCFs will come, but I'm not sure if the PN will invest in enlarging it or anything. They're likely happy with the design as-is. Going bigger will come at a cost, and not just financial. A bigger platform needs more defensive means, so some of that additional firepower is there to defend the ship. How much can the PN realistically afford on top of that to gain capability? In that sense, more submarines would have a greater impact.

I agree, my point of JCF-2 with more tonnage and missiles was particularly in response to the suggestions of aquiring Type-52Ds. So if there's a need for more firepower, more endurance/range, more strong presense in overseas then perhaps JCF-2 could be a better, and maybe more affordable solution then Type-52Ds. Secondly, Chinese destroyers are made for China''s requirements. Our ships can have weapons according to our own threats.

As far as submarines are concerned obviously, they are critical and the most important. That's the reason I am emphasizing on the need for submarine base. A underground base, where submarines can come and go while submerge will increase our capabilities many folds. The key thing about submarines is secrecy, Now-a-days with satellites enemy can see exact timings of our submarines that are leaving the base. They can have critical intel that how many subs are present in port / bases, so how many others could be in sea. We need a bases like these. This will have a force multiplier effect. More I explained below:

Yes very right, almost impossible to hide how many subs you operate when everybody can see your naval bases via satellites. Plus exact coordinates / locations of your submarines docking stations are known to the enemy. Unless you invest in underground submarine bases. I just draw a basic concept.

View attachment 138537

So basically, submarines will ALWAYS remain submerged before entering the base. First it's difficult to know exact location of the base. Even if the base location gets known, enemy cannot know how many subs you have built / procured and operating out of that base. Lastly, destroying submarines in surprise attack becomes nearly impossible. As massive elevations are impossible to penetrate using usual cruise missiles, unless the enemy has those B2 / MAP kind of stuff. Also most importantly, enemy will never know when your submarines left the base. Are those subs currently in deep oceans OR in the base. Enemy will keep guessing. So this thing is critical for Pakistan. Right now, we can count our all subs from satellite imagery. Enemy ofcourse will always have latest sat images then publicly available. It will give massive strategic advantage to PN.

Since Pakistan is investing a lot in submarines. I really wish we develop such hardened / secure naval bases.

View attachment 138534


Ormara has a natural elevation which is great for these, Plus that angle makes it impossible for any projectile to hit from South or East. Its opening is from North-West.

View attachment 138535

 

[Scorpio]

Should be 100 combat ships by 2035-2040 also induct SLBM capable subs and as india inducts rafale M the navy should have new 2 sqs of j10c dedicated for only navy role and purposes. Also the destroyers should be armed with at least 96 vls to fire supersonic and hypersonic cruise missile as well our smash and p282 our need is more firepower from less ships. This should be our goal till 2040-2045.

For Navy Role ... Twin engines are always more suitable..

J10s can be ad-hoc solution, but not a permanent solutions..

if they want palteform that can support Navy ops ..

 

[Scorpio]

I agree, my point of JCF-2 with more tonnage and missiles was particularly in response to the suggestions of aquiring Type-52Ds. So if there's a need for more firepower, more endurance/range, more strong presense in overseas then perhaps JCF-2 could be a better, and maybe more affordable solution then Type-52Ds. Secondly, Chinese destroyers are made for China''s requirements. Our ships can have weapons according to our own threats.

As far as submarines are concerned obviously, they are critical and the most important. That's the reason I am emphasizing on the need for submarine base. A underground base, where submarines can come and go while submerge will increase our capabilities many folds. The key thing about submarines is secrecy, Now-a-days with satellites enemy can see exact timings of our submarines that are leaving the base. They can have critical intel that how many subs are present in port / bases, so how many others could be in sea. We need a bases like these. This will have a force multiplier effect. More I explained below:

JCF - if induced in numbers .. will definitely benefits alot ..
we are far behind then Indian Navy in numbers games specifically for surfaced ships and there's capacity...

If we will able extract Oil from sea with American support .. then Americans will more interested to defends sea routes then Pakistan ..
We will definitely sea US navy deployment in region the protect interests..

 

[Bentley777]

For Navy Role ... Twin engines are always more suitable..

Deploying j35 for navy will be expensive then deploying j10c.

 

[PakistaniDefender]

I agree, my point of JCF-2 with more tonnage and missiles was particularly in response to the suggestions of aquiring Type-52Ds. So if there's a need for more firepower, more endurance/range, more strong presense in overseas then perhaps JCF-2 could be a better, and maybe more affordable solution then Type-52Ds. Secondly, Chinese destroyers are made for China''s requirements. Our ships can have weapons according to our own threats.

As far as submarines are concerned obviously, they are critical and the most important. That's the reason I am emphasizing on the need for submarine base. A underground base, where submarines can come and go while submerge will increase our capabilities many folds. The key thing about submarines is secrecy, Now-a-days with satellites enemy can see exact timings of our submarines that are leaving the base. They can have critical intel that how many subs are present in port / bases, so how many others could be in sea. We need a bases like these. This will have a force multiplier effect. More I explained below:

You need very good Air defense fleets with Long range SAMs hence the opinion about inducting Type 52Ds.