Joint Defense Agreement: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[Pakistani Dragon]

The MAD was devised after the initial use... established enough of a deterrent that during and now even after the cold war the two avoided any direct engagement. ...

MAD is about one nuclear power attacking another nuclear power with nuclear weapons.

Last I checked, Iran considers nuclear weapons haram.

... Considering that both now have developed tactical nukes and doctrines surrounding them... Russia will only see fit using tactical nukes in Ukraine and Europe as a doctrinal validation. ...

Russia hitting Ukraine with nukes is not America's problem. The US does not have a NATO-style mutual-defence treaty with Ukraine and neither is it looking for one.

The United States' 2018 nuclear policy says there is "no automaticity" of a nuclear response to a nuclear attack against the US or any of its allies.

You'll be aware that the Trump administration views Ukraine as an unnecessary burden on the US.

... Something which US will pave the way, if they drop the threshold to such a low level. As Russia has shown and earlier fears were that given the kind of losses and persistent Ukrainian escalations will result in exactly that... yet didn't transpire... instead Ukraine kept pushing the envelope. ...

Russia's capital, Moscow, is being repeatedly attacked by Ukraine. Can you believe that?

The capital of a nuclear power is being attacked by a non-nuclear power.

Even Russia's strategic bombers have been attacked, and Russia has suffered hundreds of thousands of military casualties.

By the way, Russia's pain threshold seems to be much higher than that of cowardly Iran despite all the Persian bravado.

... The Chinese will be forced into a nightmare scenario they have been working towards for past decades. China will not wait for retaliation against North Korea that risks it's own survival. ...

That's what you're hoping and wishing for. It's all in your head.

You don't sound very wise with the amount of gibberish nonsense you post daily.

 

[Cookie Monster]

They are already holding exercises between them for different scenarios.. in reality they have 3 (for now) possibilities of defense depending on the geostrategic position of any of the 3 countries and that creates dozens if not hundreds of scenarios of attacks and defense..they'll be training on all of them..

This coalition allows every one nation of the 3 to have an enforced order of battle _in case it is attacked_ where the nation is as the center of the battle and the 2 others form the wings.. you can see this clearly on a map of the ME..

View attachment 211131​

I agree...here's what I think the three nations can start at in addition to joint training and exercises...which wouldn't even cost much extra money but would pay dividends in terms of sustaining a long term war(for any of the 3 countries).
Post in thread 'Joint Defense Agreement: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates' https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...-and-pakistan-news-updates.31134/post-1377066

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

MAD is about one nuclear power attacking another nuclear power with nuclear weapons.

Last I checked, Iran considers nuclear weapons haram.

Who or what are you even replying to, dragon?
Just because you felt like throwing up something, puked here!

I did not make a case for Iranian rationale for or against nukes. It is about US use of nukes against a declared non nuclear state. MAD served it's purpose till nuclear states hadn't made a case for tactical use of these devices again, against non nuclear states. And just like US first use against Japan, it is US/zion contemplating a niche for tactical use of the same weapons.

Russia hitting Ukraine with nukes is not America's problem. The US does not have a NATO-style mutual-defence treaty with Ukraine and neither is it looking for one.

The United States' 2018 nuclear policy says there is "no automaticity" of a nuclear response to a nuclear attack against the US or any of its allies.

You'll be aware that the Trump administration views Ukraine as an unnecessary burden on the US.

Again, playing an unnecessary scenario for own consumption. Russia hasn't used nukes in Ukraine but has developed doctrine that has a potential to give legitimacy to their own use against a non nuclear state. Just like Russian use of American wars of aggression to invade Ukraine... but more defensive in nature to protect it's own periphery.

How Russia takes it t the end of the day is their own national prerogative.

Russia's capital, Moscow, is being repeatedly attacked by Ukraine. Can you believe that?

The capital of a nuclear power is being attacked by a non-nuclear power.

Even Russia's strategic bombers have been attacked, and Russia has suffered hundreds of thousands of military casualties.

By the way, Russia's pain threshold seems to be much higher than that of cowardly Iran despite all the Persian bravado.

That is laughable... why would you protest Iranian position to me... and once the flipside make the case that US pain threshold is nonexistent by contrast.

That's what you're hoping and wishing for. It's all in your head.

You don't sound very wise with the amount of gibberish nonsense you post daily.

Duly noted. I'll let you know when I'll give a toss about it!

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

... I did not make a case for Iranian rationale for or against nukes. It is about US use of nukes against a declared non nuclear state. MAD served it's purpose till nuclear states hadn't made a case for tactical use of these devices again, against non nuclear states. And just like US first use against Japan, it is US/zion contemplating a niche for tactical use of the same weapons.

Sorry brother, I don't understand your bongiyan.

... Again, playing an unnecessary scenario for own consumption. Russia hasn't used nukes in Ukraine but has developed doctrine that has a potential to give legitimacy to their own use against a non nuclear state. Just like Russian use of American wars of aggression to invade Ukraine... but more defensive in nature to protect it's own periphery.

How Russia takes it t the end of the day is their own national prerogative. ...

So... what exactly are you trying to prove?

Russia can use nuclear weapons against Ukraine whenever it feels like it.

The US can use nuclear weapons against Iran whenever it feels like it.

Is Russia supposed to care? Is the US supposed to care?

... That is laughable... why would you protest Iranian position to me... and once the flipside make the case that US pain threshold is nonexistent by contrast. ...

More bongiyan.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Sorry brother, I don't understand your bongiyan.


So... what exactly are you trying to prove?

Russia can use nuclear weapons against Ukraine whenever it feels like it.

The US can use nuclear weapons against Iran whenever it feels like it.

Is Russia supposed to care? Is the US supposed to care?


More bongiyan.

Keep moving along!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

This is how great powers decline' | Fareed's Take​

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[El Sidd]

That's if the world is still willing to tolerate the IRGC's fanaticism and allow its Terror Tentacles to survive.

Its not a global 'problem'. More so a regional one. As mentioned before, how much influence Iran has on these groups post Suleimani and salami slicing, is for subject matter experts to deliberate.

 

[retaxis]

There's drawing room chatter that the joint plan is to build Pakistan military capabilities at a very high level , reason being floated is that it will be very cost effective to build and maintain.

Its in the rich Saudi interest to keep Pakistan as strong as possible. Not only for nuclear reasons but also to have Pakistan crush any internal rebellion should it come to that.

Saudi have given 10s of billions to Egypt to boost their military since Morsi got kicked out. How else can they afford all those new birds they are flying from half a dozen countries.

Now in Alliance with Pakistan, Saudi would be beneficial for themselves to throw tens of billions at Pakistans defensive and offensive capabilities.

 

[retaxis]

MAD is about one nuclear power attacking another nuclear power with nuclear weapons.

Last I checked, Iran considers nuclear weapons haram.


Russia hitting Ukraine with nukes is not America's problem. The US does not have a NATO-style mutual-defence treaty with Ukraine and neither is it looking for one.

The United States' 2018 nuclear policy says there is "no automaticity" of a nuclear response to a nuclear attack against the US or any of its allies.

You'll be aware that the Trump administration views Ukraine as an unnecessary burden on the US.


Russia's capital, Moscow, is being repeatedly attacked by Ukraine. Can you believe that?

The capital of a nuclear power is being attacked by a non-nuclear power.

Even Russia's strategic bombers have been attacked, and Russia has suffered hundreds of thousands of military casualties.

By the way, Russia's pain threshold seems to be much higher than that of cowardly Iran despite all the Persian bravado.


That's what you're hoping and wishing for. It's all in your head.

You don't sound very wise with the amount of gibberish nonsense you post daily.

Russia has China to take all the pressure off, Iran doesn't really have anyone they can rely on.

China acts as a primary economic lifeline and alternative marketplace for Russia, helping it bypass Western sanctions through cross-border retail, heavily discounted energy and commodity trading, and indirect consumer goods supply chains. [1, 2, 3]
Bilateral trade channels have adapted heavily since sweeping restrictions were introduced following the invasion of Ukraine. [1, 2]

Retail, Pop-Up Shops, and Cross-Border Shopping

• • Russian Product Pop-Ups in China: Thousands of Chinese merchants have set up online shops and physical pop-up stores in cities like Beijing selling branded Russian goods such as chocolates, honey, and cereal. Some labels have faced regulatory crackdowns or consumer pushback when items marked as Russian were found to be locally or third-party manufactured. [1]
  • Border Tourism and Shopping: Border hubs like Suifenhe experience heavy cross-border retail traffic, where Russian visitors utilize visa-free entry regimes to buy Chinese consumer electronics, clothes, and vehicles, paying heavily in rubles. [1, 2]

Sanction Evasion and Industrial Trade

• • Surrogate Supply Chains: Chinese ports and intermediaries route restricted Western-origin electronics, machinery, auto parts, and dual-use components into Russia. [1, 2]
  • Alternative Payments & Barter: Due to severe banking and financial restrictions cutting off direct wire transactions, trade relies heavily on alternative local currency settlements, intermediary payment networks, and localized barter arrangements (such as swapping Russian agricultural goods or timber for Chinese machinery and vehicles). [1, 2]

Energy and Heavy Commodities

• • Discounted Hydrocarbons: China remains a massive buyer of heavily discounted Russian oil, coal, and sanctioned liquefied natural gas (LNG), creating a parallel, sanctions-resistant energy trade network that actively defies unilateral Western penalties. [1, 2, 3]
  • Logistics Innovations: Rapidly expanding land and maritime trade has pushed both nations to test automated cargo systems, such as self-driving trucks and cross-border drones in Russia's Far East, alongside regular container shipping schedules utilizing Russia's Northern Sea Route. [1, 2]