Learjet 60 crashes in Florida - Crashes 9 Miles from Mar-a-Lago

[Par 5]

Most unfortunate accident. Likely casue in my opinion; ICE on the wings. Rest, lets wait for NTSB investogation to conclude the real cause. Thank God no one on the ground was hurt or killed

 

[j_hungary]

I believe this is a fundamental failure of technology. No matter what the conditions or pilot errors were, from 40 thousand feet there should be ample time and built in fail safe systems in place to prevent a vertical dive into the ground at full throttle. If icing can so easily render the plane unfunctional as we've seen with so many crashes due to icing of the control surfaces, than there should be triple/quadruple backup systems installed to prevent just this type of scenario.

The problem with Icing is that it only builds up on the flying surface, and you can't alter most of the flying surface. You can alter the leading edge (which is where most deicing boots were located), but you can't alter the wing.

And it generally wasn't up to you; your wing is coated with ice when you fly thru low pressure with precipitation; that's just physics, and the only thing you can do as a pilot is not fly into one........which is hard as it can form in seconds.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

People at the site said they had no idea it was a plane. They thought it was a meteor strike or something.

This just shows how a plane can disappear almost without a trace. We obviously have the footage of a plane hitting the ground...but even those witnesses on site could not tell it was a plane. You can imagine how many crash sites over the last few decades were misdiagnosed by locals on the ground as "no, this isn't the place".

There was a big DC-9 passenger plane with 110 passengers that nose dived into the everglades in less than 2 feet of water in 1996 and nobody could tell it was a plane wreckage site.

ValuJet Flight 592 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

DC-9

 

[SaadH]

The problem with Icing is that it only builds up on the flying surface, and you can't alter most of the flying surface. You can alter the leading edge (which is where most deicing boots were located), but you can't alter the wing.

And it generally wasn't up to you; your wing is coated with ice when you fly thru low pressure with precipitation; that's just physics, and the only thing you can do as a pilot is not fly into one........which is hard as it can form in seconds.

Better sensors and heating elements similar to ones on car rear windows should be developed and improved. No need to alter the control surfaces.

 

[j_hungary]

People at the site said they had no idea it was a plane. They thought it was a meteor strike or something.

This just shows how a plane can disappear almost without a trace. We obviously have the footage of a plane hitting the ground...but even those witnesses on site could not tell it was a plane. You can imagine how many crash sites over the last few decades were misdiagnosed by locals on the ground as "no, this isn't the place".

There was a big DC-9 passenger plane with 110 passengers that nose dived into the everglades in less than 2 feet of water in 1996 and nobody could tell it was a plane wreckage site.

ValuJet Flight 592 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

DC-9

That Learjet hitting the ground with a rate of descent over 30,000 ft/min, that's amost 10 meters/seconds (at 35000 ft). At this rate, F=mgh, you are looking at around 70kN force........

P.S. That's 70kN per Kilogram (or 7 tons per kilogram), so if I were in that plane, at 85 kilograms, I would be subject to 595 tons of force on me.......

 

[j_hungary]

Better sensors and heating elements similar to ones on car rear windows should be developed and improved. No need to alter the control surfaces.

That would only work (if it did) when ice had already accumulated on the wing. And usually when it did, it's already too late

And you also have to consider outside temperature as well. We aren't talking about driving on a rainy night when outside is -10F, we are talking about an aircraft that flew over 35000 feet. The pilot reported outside temp is -47C (-50F) heating element won't work.......

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Anyone else care to post callous comments?

If yes, it will not end well.

Mind boggling with some people here. Simply mind boggling.

 

[Master Chief]

That was ATC comm; all ATC comm in the US was public. You can listen to it just by logging in/

There are some YouTube channels that solely do ATC comm

That's interesting. In UK, there are legal restrictions on listening to ATC comms, for obvious reasons.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

That's interesting. In UK, there are legal restrictions on listening to ATC comms, for obvious reasons.

I don't know if it is still the case or not; back in the day, friends of mine listened into police communications.

 

[j_hungary]

That's interesting. In UK, there are legal restrictions on listening to ATC comms, for obvious reasons.

Well......I don't know, but you can listen to live ATC in the US here. We took our 1st Amendment very seriously........

https://www.liveatc.net/

The ARTCC Code for this airport is ZMA......

 

[j_hungary]

I don't know if it is still the case or not; back in the day, friends of mine listened into police communications.

Police Band or Police Comm?

Pretty sure you can listen to Police Band (Dispatch and such) now; all you need is your own CB set. Police Comm is restricted it usually scrambled.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Police Band or Police Comm?

Pretty sure you can listen to Police Band (Dispatch and such) now; all you need is your own CB set. Police Comm is restricted it usually scrambled.

It was police comms. This was back in the 80s and early 90s before trunked radio systems were widely deployed.

I worked a bit on that at Motorola.

 

[Master Chief]

I don't know if it is still the case or not; back in the day, friends of mine listened into police communications.

Yes, to clarify, folks can still listen in to ATC even here using the same equipment you have mentioned, but afaik it is not legal to record it and stream it. Hence you probably won't find a youtube channel airing such comms from UK.

 

[j_hungary]

They are already doing a profile on the Female Co-Pilot

 

[Par 5]

They are already doing a profile on the Female Co-Pilot

Pilots age or gender in such accidents is immaterial. Equipment failure or bad decisions can be made at any age or by any gender. She was a qualified pilot who simply ran into unfortunate circumstances