Lessons for Pakistan from the Israel/Iran conflict of June 2025

Pakistanis chimping out for Iran and this is what they think of your Kashmir.

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The Kashmiris online are furious at this behaviour , The whole of india hates iran to its guts including the regime . the embassy should have written "THANK YOU KASHMIR" but cuks wrote "thank you india " even after knowing the biggest arms buyer from zios is india , absolute clowns
 
The fact you do not know about ISI's successes is a sign of how good it is. If PAF is a league above IAF. ISI is about 3 leagues above RAW. ISI plays against Mossad and the CIA on a daily basis. RAW cannot even stop Bangladesh from going anti-indian.

Beyond its role in the nuclear program, go ahead and tell us about these wonderful accomplishments of the ISI. I am all ears.
 
Beyond its role in the nuclear program, go ahead and tell us about these wonderful accomplishments of the ISI. I am all ears.
From my memory:
-Supporting the Uprising against the soviets and establishing strong HUMINT in afg , even better then CIA.
-Establishing the famous OGW network in Kashmir , that still stands strong today.
-Supporting the Bosnians in their war against the Serbs.
-Catching indian spy rings .
-Arresting french officials for spying in kahuta
-Honey trapping prominent figures in indian defence circles even to the point of making EX DRDO chief to leak info.
-Arrest and killing of BLA/BLF and BNA leaders and other things
 
The Kashmiris online are furious at this behaviour , The whole of india hates iran to its guts including the regime . the embassy should have written "THANK YOU KASHMIR" but cuks wrote "thank you india " even after knowing the biggest arms buyer from zios is india , absolute clowns

Certain Pakistanis are happy to be proxy fodder. They really do think so lowly of themselves don't they.

Just like what happened after the NATO Afghan invasion, the same is happening now. They tried to destroy Pakistan's relationship with the US then and same again now.

It was an absolute farce watching them trying to attack the US consulates. Shooting yourselves in your own face.

ISI should have been on top of the Iranian proxies in Pakistan. They need to do more.
 
The biggest takeaway is the importance of good intelligence. The manner Israel has been able to wipe out 1st to 3rd layer of the Iranian leadership is quite unprecedented.

This contrasts disturbingly with Pakistan’s failure to eliminate any high level TTP officials in the ongoing operations in Afghanistan. If Pakistan is struggling against a non-state entity where internal strife is rife, imagine how difficult to impossible it will be for them to collect good intelligence against a peer force like India.

This is what ISI "should" be focused on and doing, but their attention is inwards on political monitoring and oppression internally instead. ISI is overrated given their overall poor performance and handling of the whole Afghanistan debacle.
 
From my memory:
-Supporting the Uprising against the soviets and establishing strong HUMINT in afg , even better then CIA.
-Establishing the famous OGW network in Kashmir , that still stands strong today.
-Supporting the Bosnians in their war against the Serbs.
-Catching indian spy rings .
-Arresting french officials for spying in kahuta
-Honey trapping prominent figures in indian defence circles even to the point of making EX DRDO chief to leak info.
-Arrest and killing of BLA/BLF and BNA leaders and other things

history of the Ummah won't remember any if this and will be wiped from the books because that is Pakistan first polices

history will however be kind to Iran for its role in fighting against Tyranny
 
history of the Ummah won't remember any if this and will be wiped from the books because that is Pakistan first polices

history will however be kind to Iran for its role in fighting against Tyranny
📍 location: YOO-KAY

No one cares about the "ummah history" books btw, it's what the low IQ retards who use Islam to cope with an identity crisis needing constant approval read.
 
Fair pushback, but I would argue the ISI isn’t even doing its primary job. No one expects the ISI to compensate for the broader state failure afflicting Pakistan. That’s given. But it lacks in its primary role of intelligence collections and analysis.

For example, Pakistan spent the entire Afghanistan war clandestinely aiding the Taliban. It got sanctioned and isolated for it. As soon as the Americans and NATO left, their supposed proxy turned rogue and initiated an active project of dismantling the Pakistani state.

The ongoing operations by Pakistan inside Afghanistan reflects this basic failure. The ISI didn’t know what it was getting into by supporting the Taliban. Today the Taliban are closer to India than Pakistan. That reflects an intelligence failure of epic proportions. Not to mention the ISI’s failure in locating senior BLA and TTP leadership in Afghanistan. Mossad with substantially less experience in Iran is able to eliminate to the entire cadre of Iranian leadership. RAW is executing operations in Canada and the US.

The ISI’s only known overseas operations in recent years was murdering a Pakistani journalist in cold blood in Kenya.

Ps

One of the most wanted people in Pakistan is a former ISI agent who went rogue and has engineered some of the biggest attacks in Pakistan. So the ISI can’t even handle its own agents.
You are still making two flawed assumptions. First, you are talking about ISI as if it has the resources, reach, institutional freedom, and operational insulation to act like an all seeing state within the state, when even agencies like the CIA or NSA cannot deliver that kind of omniscience or control.

Intelligence services work under budget limits, political interference, poor interagency coordination, bad source validation, and imperfect local partners. So when you list every downstream failure of Afghan policy, militancy, border insecurity, and proxy blowback and then collapse all of it into “ISI failed,” you are effectively expecting one institution to perform as god.

Second, you’re comparing ISI to RAW or Mossad in a completely lopsided way. You’re looking at the small percentage of visible successes from those agencies and treating that as the whole picture, while looking at Pakistan through the lens of every visible failure and treating that as the whole picture too. That’s just sampling bias. You don’t see the failed ops, bad reads, missed targets, political restrictions, internal screwups, and strategic blunders on the other side with the same level of visibility, so naturally the comparison ends up distorted.

On Afghanistan specifically, it is also too convenient to treat long term Taliban blowback as if it proves a uniquely ISI specific analytical collapse. States repeatedly back actors they believe are useful in one phase and dangerous in another; that is not rare in intelligence history, it is almost the norm. The Americans did this repeatedly, the Soviets did it, the Iranians do it, and regional services across the Middle East have done the same. That does not excuse bad judgment, but it does mean the issue is larger than “they didn’t know what they were getting into.” Often they know the risks and still proceed because policymakers prioritize short term gains over long term stability.

And this is where your argument still stretches too far because you’re bundling together strategic miscalculation, policy failure, weak border control, lack of governance, inability to eliminate every hostile leader across the border, and even rogue former operatives, then dumping all of it into one basket called “ISI is ineffective.”

An intel service can be flawed, overstretched, and operating in a declining system without being useless. What you’re really showing is that you expect "near perfect" outcomes from an institution that doesn’t have "near perfect" tools, while giving foreign agencies credit based mostly on the curated highlights people hear about online.
 
Pakistanis chimping out for Iran and this is what they think of your Kashmir.

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Lol check the comments from the Indian Hindutva folk and those who lean that way, literally hating them calling them traitors and ba$tard and to get out of the country and go to Iran.
Yes, sure, thank you 'India'. :ROFLMAO:
 
-Develop more powerful nuclear weapons
-Have a credible second strike with nuclear submarines, not the Temu second cruise missiles strike from electric subs
-Ensure internal unity and make economic equality a goal, which includes priority spending on all public services
-Build infrastructure to support the nation in prolonged conflict i.e. missile factories underground, storage of reserve fuel etc
-Be friends with all your neighbours aside India
-Keep on developing and increasing conventional forces, especially the air and sea wing
-Drill the population in contingency plans in the event of full scale war
-Keep China aware of everything
 
Beyond its role in the nuclear program, go ahead and tell us about these wonderful accomplishments of the ISI. I am all ears.

Well, there is an Indian naval officer still in Pakistani custody that can tell you about how good the ISI is, maybe ask him? Hopefully you can be "all ears" with him....
 
This is one of those national characteristics present in Pakistan that are so deeply engrained in the culture, and hence present in every aspect of life & institution that it's hard to imagine where to begin fixing it. Perhaps generations of effort starting at the early schooling level; though even here there seems to be no effort to try.

But it's a general rule that most things in Pakistan run on very low effort, unserious, inefficient, and incompetent yet expect the totally opposite results.

Once you factor in the shitty internal security and regional balance, you can't help but be bearish on Pakistan's trajectory.
I actually think the caution in your post is fair, but the bearishness goes a bit too far because it ignores another deeply Pakistani national characteristic...

The same low effort, improvised, dysfunctional culture you are describing also produces a weird kind of short-term crisis resilience. Pakistan repeatedly stumbles into the wall, then somehow patches together just enough elite consensus, external financing, coercive discipline, and social adjustment to avoid the full collapse that confident doomers keep predicting. That is not strength in the healthy sense, but it is still a real pattern, and by now it should be obvious that Pakistan is often better at surviving crises in the short run than reforming itself in the long run.

That is where the “resilience narrative” actually matters. Pakistan has repeatedly used IMF programs, emergency financing, fiscal tightening, remittances, and administrative controls to stabilize after near crisis moments, including the recent period when it moved away from imminent default and restored a degree of stability. Even the World Bank’s recent assessment describes the gains as fragile rather than nonexistent, which is an important distinction.

So yes, there are plenty of reasons to be cautious, especially on governance, productivity, poverty, and long term trajectory, but those same realities should also make people cautious about being too bullish on imminent collapse. Pakistan’s story for decades has been short term wins, longer holds, and delayed consequences, and any serious leader should have recognized early that this survival capacity can become its own trap.

Just enough resilience to avoid reform

BUT

Never enough reform to escape the cycle.
 
I dare say - Pakistan is not a failed state, it is a state with collective ADHD.

Pakistanis hyperfixate on each crisis, make impulsive decisions, survive through panic and adrenaline, then forget everything in time to do it all again.
 
Now I want to make a few jokes on it..

If Pakistan was a university student, it would be the one with severe ADHD who skips class all semester, starts every assignment the night before, blames the professor, borrows money from friends, somehow passes with a 52, calls it resilience, and then learns absolutely nothing before doing it all again.

Pakistan would be the ADHD doctor who misses the diagnosis for months, panics when the patient crashes, throws five random interventions at once, somehow gets a pulse back, and then calls it medical brilliance.
 
Now I want to make a few jokes on it..

If Pakistan was a university student, it would be the one with severe ADHD who skips class all semester, starts every assignment the night before, blames the professor, borrows money from friends, somehow passes with a 52, calls it resilience, and then learns absolutely nothing before doing it all again.

Pakistan would be the ADHD doctor who misses the diagnosis for months, panics when the patient crashes, throws five random interventions at once, somehow gets a pulse back, and then calls it medical brilliance.


Nah, Pakistan would be this guy. Now pass the Biyriani and cigars....

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