Makkah Defence Alliance: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[r3alist]

They'll probably arm twist Pakistan to do something, I don't think Turks are stupid enough to get in this mess - but who knows really? I didn't think Turkey would ever get involved with Syria.

Everyone says the arm twisting but when has it happened before?


And what can Pakistan decisively do to take on the difficult houthis, it's not worth the escalation to anyone

The defence pact is more for emerging threat's and reducing future voids.

So oil goes sky high, trump has reason to go up the escalation ladder, Saudi will work with uae and Israel.... Iran is making the regional equation worse and they are using their branding to keep people quiet

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

What Houthis are

That is the perfect segway to

What Saudis are...!

At any rate, the rest of your argument is correct. What Pakistan should do instead of fighting a war of aggression on Yemen, is to mediate for peace. The Saudi regime change operation failed miserably and they must vacate Yemen.
Instead, they should build stakes in Yemen... where it becomes incumbent upon the stakeholders to maintain peace.

All they have done is expose their own vulnerabilities... and being an aggressor here grants them no leverage to work with... they're still living the paradigm where someone comes along and finishes the job for them for a grueling task that has no bright side.

 

[r3alist]

The symbol on the tower resembles horns of Satan no? watching over Kaaba and standing above "Allah".

And therefore what......

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

The houthis seemingly have amazing branding.

They are talking about a move on Makkah, and guys like this are using the tower as an excuse to see missiles over Makkah, god forbid.

The clock tower has become contentious for various reasons...
A parallel to Abu lahab... the one who profited from the pilgrims in pagan Makkah.
And a place where money segregates... in a place where money is and should be meaningless, provides access, proximity, distance from the masses... who congregate in two shrouds in spite of their color, ethnicity, background, piety, origin and/or wealth... etc.
It is the antithesis of everything that is harem and it's surrounds.

 

[Oscar]

Everyone says the arm twisting but when has it happened before?


And what can Pakistan decisively do to take on the difficult houthis, it's not worth the escalation to anyone

The defence pact is more for emerging threat's and reducing future voids.

So oil goes sky high, trump has reason to go up the escalation ladder, Saudi will work with uae and Israel.... Iran is making the regional equation worse and they are using their branding to keep people quiet

It is also possible that post this "escalation shock" -KSA may be deliberately separating the coalition into visible and invisible functions:

Turkiye and Pakistan provide the public collective defense framework and Saudi homeland protection

The United States and Israel provide the high-end intelligence, targeting, and maritime picture and letting Yemeni forces absorb the ground-combat burden(read meat grinding cannon fodder).

The problem is majority are interpreting it as "camp based" narratives where in reality it is very much every state looking after its own interest in a game of monopoly. Temporary partnerships - alliances - and so on. But true to the age old play of geopolitics Pakistan is saying:

“An attack on Saudi Arabia is an attack on a partner, and Pakistan supports Saudi security."

But also saying

"Pakistan will not join a war inside Yemen unless circumstances, treaty process, a Saudi request, domestic authorization, and a narrowly defined defensive mission all justify it."

This is akin to a broke but conniving man living in his in-laws house managing a conflict between his wife and sister.

 

[Oscar]

The clock tower has become contentious for various reasons...
A parallel to Abu lahab... the one who profited from the pilgrims in pagan Makkah.
And a place where money segregates... in a place where money is and should be meaningless, provides access, proximity, distance from the masses... who congregate in two shrouds in spite of their color, ethnicity, background, piety, origin and/or wealth... etc.
It is the antithesis of everything that is harem and it's surrounds.

Incorrect from multiple angles even if your moral aspect is correct. As a symbol of luxury it is adjacent if not downright against the principles of Islam - but profit was not forbidden for pilgrims and those around makkah EVER otherwise the prophet would have forbidden it post the conquest.

Therefore, a hotel or business near the Haram is not objectionable just because it earns money. The real question is whether its pricing, conduct, scale, labor practices, access arrangements, and effect on the dignity and accessibility of pilgrimage meet Islamic standards.

 

[flyingorca]

Well anyone who doesn't cause terrorism is right for KSA... I would even give it to Vaticans because at least they had balls to condemn attack on Iranian schools.... Spineless lot doesn't deserve holy cities

Did Iran condemn Indian attack on Pakistan that killed many innocent children? Its sad what happened to Iranian school children but IRGC never supports Pakistan.

 

[r3alist]

The clock tower has become contentious for various reasons...
A parallel to Abu lahab... the one who profited from the pilgrims in pagan Makkah.
And a place where money segregates... in a place where money is and should be meaningless, provides access, proximity, distance from the masses... who congregate in two shrouds in spite of their color, ethnicity, background, piety, origin and wealth.
It is the antithesis of everything that is harem and it's surrounds.

Yea ok, but that's a tacit endorsement of bombing it and where will the rubble go, how many die?

This talk outs the rabbit hole dwellers who think they are Uber righteous, 4d chess only in their head, as they go from one disaster to the next, forgetting each failure, one destroyed place to the next, maybe they are getting played with subversive narratives, as if that building is the biggest problem right now, really?


Change can come in civilised ways, not just bombs bombs rubble and ruin

 

[flyingorca]

It is also possible that post this "escalation shock" -KSA may be deliberately separating the coalition into visible and invisible functions:

Turkiye and Pakistan provide the public collective defense framework and Saudi homeland protection

The United States and Israel provide the high-end intelligence, targeting, and maritime picture and letting Yemeni forces absorb the ground-combat burden(read meat grinding cannon fodder).

The problem is majority are interpreting it as "camp based" narratives where in reality it is very much every state looking after its own interest in a game of monopoly. Temporary partnerships - alliances - and so on. But true to the age old play of geopolitics Pakistan is saying:

“An attack on Saudi Arabia is an attack on a partner, and Pakistan supports Saudi security."

But also saying

"Pakistan will not join a war inside Yemen unless circumstances, treaty process, a Saudi request, domestic authorization, and a narrowly defined defensive mission all justify it."

This is akin to a broke but conniving man living in his in-laws house managing a conflict between his wife and sister.

Not sure why many people believe Israel is helping KSA when we know Israel was itching to strike KSA same way they did in Qatar.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Everyone says the arm twisting but when has it happened before?


And what can Pakistan decisively do to take on the difficult houthis, it's not worth the escalation to anyone

The defence pact is more for emerging threat's and reducing future voids.

So oil goes sky high, trump has reason to go up the escalation ladder, Saudi will work with uae and Israel.... Iran is making the regional equation worse and they are using their branding to keep people quiet

Per my opinion(I'm not an expert nor associated with armed forces in any way)...
Pakistan should deploy special forces(to invade) and army deployment to hold those two islands that Houthis seized under Mecca defense alliance. KSA and Turkey should back it. It would be a perfect excuse to hold such key strategic islands at such an important route. No one country would be to blame and seen as a hegemon/colonizer to the world(except by Yemen and perhaps Israel which would be clearly unhappy) but to the rest of the world it should be portrayed as "ensuring" security of trade routes and taking a page out of Israeli playbook...the move would be "temporary"(but in reality there would be no plans of returning the islands any time soon).

KSA should bank roll this operation and all sorts of layered air defense, coastal batteries, and long range missiles should be deployed to hold the islands and attack if necessary. Then later at some point the islands should be handed over to KSA(at least in name.. regardless of whose army under Mecca agreement is presently holding the islands) so any pressure by UN or world powers would be for their government to deal with.

It would demonstrate that this Mecca pact holds water...and is honestly doable relatively quick without getting bogged down by some endless war in Yemen or something.

Oscar Panzerkiel
ur feedback would be highly appreciated regarding the above.

 

[KingQamaR]

Simple question: If Saudi Arabia invokes the pact,will Turkey and Pakistan commit to a war against the Houthis?

The Saudis are on their own with this one. The Mecca Pact doesn’t cover these types of conflicts. US Military attacked the Houthis 3 times and failed. The Saudi idiots are going to have to figure this out.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Incorrect from multiple angles even if your moral aspect is correct. As a symbol of luxury it is adjacent if not downright against the principles of Islam - but profit was not forbidden for pilgrims and those around makkah EVER otherwise the prophet would have forbidden it post the conquest.

Therefore, a hotel or business near the Haram is not objectionable just because it earns money. The real question is whether its pricing, conduct, scale, labor practices, access arrangements, and effect on the dignity and accessibility of pilgrimage meet Islamic standards.

And my argument has nothing to do with both hotel or business.

The argument changes however, when a place of business is marked inside by decree and therefore providing an access control solely by those who can afford. Only the same wealth bracket rubs shoulders and assume being part of the congregation outside. Second, abu lahab exploited pilgrims to Makkah and was direct beneficiary of the existing paradigm so much so that when when Quresh were summoned to receive the call to Islam... he objected, openly and vociferously. Eventhough he was generous previously.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Yea ok, but that's a tacit endorsement of bombing it and where will the rubble go, how many die?

This talk outs the rabbit hole dwellers who think they are Uber righteous, 4d chess only in their head, as they go from one disaster to the next, forgetting each failure, one destroyed place to the next, maybe they are getting played with subversive narratives, as if that building is the biggest problem right now, really?


Change can come in civilised ways, not just bombs bombs rubble and ruin

I'm not by any way endorsing what haqiqatju is suggesting or proposing.
My post is entirely on the merits of the tower itself.

 

[Oscar]

Not sure why many people believe Israel is helping KSA when we know Israel was itching to strike KSA same way they did in Qatar.

Because both can be true.
Saudis and Israelis coordinated back in the 60s in Yemen against Nasser but that doesnt mean either side's suspicions of the other ended.
States can COMPARTMENTALIZE - Pakistan got intelligence from Mossad during the first Afghan conflict and weapons from Israel for the Afghans without hugs and kisses.
It also got F-16s spares and UAV computers from israel and no that does not mean Pakatan has abandoned Palestine because simultaneously Israel was also talking to Indians to sell LGB Kits.



1939 the Soviets worked with Germany to invade and partition Poland - then when Germans invaded they worked with the allies even though both sides eventually planned to be in conflict post defeating germany.

States can also both mean the state and also the interests of those that rule it.
States can compartmentalize and principles matter less than state requirements.

 

[r3alist]

It is also possible that post this "escalation shock" -KSA may be deliberately separating the coalition into visible and invisible functions:

Turkiye and Pakistan provide the public collective defense framework and Saudi homeland protection

The United States and Israel provide the high-end intelligence, targeting, and maritime picture and letting Yemeni forces absorb the ground-combat burden(read meat grinding cannon fodder).

The problem is majority are interpreting it as "camp based" narratives where in reality it is very much every state looking after its own interest in a game of monopoly. Temporary partnerships - alliances - and so on. But true to the age old play of geopolitics Pakistan is saying:

“An attack on Saudi Arabia is an attack on a partner, and Pakistan supports Saudi security."

But also saying

"Pakistan will not join a war inside Yemen unless circumstances, treaty process, a Saudi request, domestic authorization, and a narrowly defined defensive mission all justify it."

This is akin to a broke but conniving man living in his in-laws house managing a conflict between his wife and sister.

Iran are undermining a sunni bloc, via the houthis. there always was a risk they would get drunk on their hype, suddenly saying we are ok with uae is conceding you are seeking to do away with the Saudis, and undermine the pact quickly .....more than go at entity.

Everyone is imagining 4d chess, some logical path that results in Israel, they will look foolish......Israel has regrouped and gained territory, entity entity entity blaaa, what entity you just made nice with uae.


I don't think the Iranians particularly care for Pakistans equities unless Pakistan is willing to make them

I might be jumping the gun, I might be wrong, it's not looking good, the Iranians will prioritise their own interests and ideologically reverse, and Israel being around lets the revolutionary state Keep an external bogeyman

The Saudis are in a difficult spot all at once, because the Americans have left the Saudis to face off to an Iran that feels powerful ......very suddenly, the Turks no doubt have ambitions, someone calling mbz now, join the Abraham accord's and this problem goes away