National strategic policies, planning & reforms: Discussions

[Toxic]

There was hope and motivation back then to build something out of the country, and most importantly there was a greater educated pool to draw from left behind by the British educated.

Today, people are confused, they don't have a vision, they are demotivated, and they also lack the knowledge to execute any sort of plan towards a vision. It is mostly feudal/mafia interest groups that dominate today.

As much as I dislike PTI for different reasons, they did give hope. It's a shame they and the establishment had such a falling out instead of coming to an understanding. It was extremely petty.

Ok the first part is false, literacy rate during independence was around 12-15%, from a population of 32 million that meant that there were 5-7 million literate people, of those very few had higher education, the pool of highy educated individuals likely very low, In the few tens of thousands mostly migrants, there was just one proper university in Pakistan during independence, regions that made up Pakistan were some of the most underdeveloped parts of the British raj,

But the country did have small class of foreign educated visionaries that led the charge Early on, the problem today isn't that there aren't a enough competent people but the problem is that non of those of competent people are in positions of power.

Thats issue of having of politics that's based more on bootlicking and family name than any semblance of meritocracy

Of course certain people that control the country have an interest in keeping this system.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Ok the first part is false, literacy rate during independence was around 12-15%, from a population of 32 million that meant that there were 5-7 million literate people, of those very few had higher education, the pool of highy educated individuals likely very low, In the few tens of thousands mostly migrants, there was just one proper university in Pakistan during independence, regions that made up Pakistan were some of the most underdeveloped parts of the British raj,

But the country did have small class of foreign educated visionaries that led the charge Early on, the problem today isn't that there aren't a enough competent people but the problem is that non of those of competent people are in positions of power.

Thats issue of having of politics that's based more on bootlicking and family name than any semblance of meritocracy

Of course certain people that control the country have an interest in keeping this system.

To build a functional country from the top down, you only need a (relatively) smaller group of highly educated people with a vision, compared to if it were a larger group but it's mildly educated with a weaker vision that are a product of an inferior system.

So while they were smaller in number, they still had enough and were far better quality. You can hear it in the clarity of their speeches back then and how institutions were ironically far better managed, PIA at a micro level was a lot better.

I want to cite Israel but it's not going to be 1:1. Influx of highly educated and visionary Ashkenazis was enough to give that massive boost than if it were a larger group of local Mizrahis.

 

[Toxic]

To build a functional country from the top down, you only need a (relatively) smaller group of highly educated people with a vision, compared to if it were a larger group but it's mildly educated with a weaker vision that are a product of an inferior system.

So while they were smaller in number, they still had enough and were far better quality. You can hear it in the clarity of their speeches back then and how institutions were ironically far better managed, PIA at a micro level was a lot better.

I want to cite Israel but it's not going to be 1:1. Influx of highly educated and visionary Ashkenazis was enough to give that massive boost than if it were a larger group of local Mizrahis.

I think you are missing one key point, those early visionaries were working with a clean slate while any Visionary that might arise today has to work in this broken system that is intentionally not being fixed, IMO the only way for Pakistan to prosper is to tear down this system completely and work with a clean slate, but you know how that goes...

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Last year (FY 2024-25), Pakistan spent 0.8% of GDP on education, 2.5% on defence, and 5.1% on tax exemptions and subsidies for the rich and powerful.

> Pakistan is spending less than 1% of its GDP on education, one of the lowest rates in the world. The underinvestment in education is holding Pakistan back economically. From falling literacy rates to the failure of provincial education systems, the comparisons with South Korea, China, and even 18th-century Europe are shameful.

 

[Quwa]

Last year (FY 2024-25), Pakistan spent 0.8% of GDP on education, 2.5% on defence, and 5.1% on tax exemptions and subsidies for the rich and powerful.

> Pakistan is spending less than 1% of its GDP on education, one of the lowest rates in the world. The underinvestment in education is holding Pakistan back economically. From falling literacy rates to the failure of provincial education systems, the comparisons with South Korea, China, and even 18th-century Europe are shameful.

Before anyone says Pakistan can't afford defence, education, and healthcare together...just keep in mind that agriculture, retail (folks who re-sale imported goods in Pak), and real-estate make up 45% of Pakistan's GDP, but like 7% of our tax intake.

In other words, the manufacturing industry, salary workers, and wage labourers pay the vast majority of Pakistan's tax, but get nothing in return via public services and support.

If we get the rent-seekers to pay up their fair share of the taxes, then I'm sure we'd have no trouble raising our education spend to like 4-5% of our GDP.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Before anyone says Pakistan can't afford defence, education, and healthcare together...just keep in mind that agriculture, retail (folks who re-sale imported goods in Pak), and real-estate make up 45% of Pakistan's GDP, but like 7% of our tax intake.

In other words, the manufacturing industry, salary workers, and wage labourers pay the vast majority of Pakistan's tax, but get nothing in return via public services and support.

If we get the rent-seekers to pay up their fair share of the taxes, then I'm sure we'd have no trouble raising our education spend to like 4-5% of our GDP.

That's evidently one of the biggest bogeymans sold to the public to justify their rot. If it was the case we wouldn't see huge amounts of subsidies and tax exemptions on luxurious items. (5.1% !!!) Not to mention once you begin to see growth from consistent competent policy-making, it can be accommodated.

These are excuses for lacking the interest in committing to long, tough, reforms — or worse, not wanting your individual feudal interests to be challenged.

That being said its not just the lack of funding or focus towards education but the quality is very outdated too. The CSS beuracratic system is really not something that should exist in the 21st century. It a symbolic left over colonial relic of a country that has failed to truly become independent.

Yousaf Nazar has some really interesting articles and interviews covering many of the fundamental issues in depth from a critical perspective. One of the few gems Pakistan has.

Pakistan’s Landed Elite: Choking Progress With Unchecked Power And Privilege

Feudal elites dominate Pakistan’s land, politics, and justice, stalling progress. Reform is vital to break their grip and build a just, modern, and equal

thefridaytimes.com

Pakistan’s Crisis Of Competence

Yousuf Nazar argues that the solution to Pakistan's woes lays in a government of experts. Once the military establishment's role in governance is

thefridaytimes.com

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Three simple areas of reform that every sincere leader should commit to if they are serious which will have long-term compounding benefits:

1. Education - declare a nationwide educational emergency, revamp the entire system from scratch focusing on STEM and practical skills in demand for our economy. Stop preaching religious extremism as a subtitute for an identity. More expenditure of GDP here.

2. Total restructuring of the beuracracy, CSS system & examination criteria, and provincial structure — Get rid of lavish expensive packages for an incompetent civil service, link it to performance goals & quality of work, introduce a modern form of examinations specific to the area they want to enter with higher standards. Decentralised control for local development.

3. Land reforms — destruction of feudal elite with mini kingdoms treating locals as subjects, mostly linked to PPP.

A lot of elites will oppose this because it directly effects their own lavish perks, whether it be PPP or the beuracracy.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There is no "reform"
There is no "Progress" or "prosperity" , when crooks are in a charge

It is the fundamental principle in society

People who want Private Jets or Fancy cars with Government budget can't save a nation

Stagnation results in heavy price , the crooks will live life of 3-4 years of luxury and power but Nation pays the price

 

[Distant_Observer]

I wish Pakistan had more R&D output especially for military use. They need to take the initiative and learn how to invent.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Agreed, shouldn't be solely the military's domain alone.

I am of the personal opinion we need a transitional reformist administration with strong civil-military inputs which can set out to carry sweeping structural reforms across the country, by this I mean extremely radical ones. Because things today are just not working.

— Education: entire educational ecosystem will be completely revamped, foreign experts will be contracted to develop an updated competitive system, and GDP allocation will be raised to at least 5%.

— Governance: entire bureaucracy and CSS system should be completely revamped and modernised, if needed with foreign expert assistance, it's an extremely outdated British colonial derived system and even the testing is subpar. Should be more technocratic in nature, with domain qualified experts in important ministries. More digitisation and performance based promotions with longer posts, not shifting around rapidly.

— Land reforms against feudal elites. Make key cities as federal territories (Karachi, Gwadar, Lahore).

The goal is to have an efficient sized government that is effective. As well as a population that contains strong human capital. This requires revamping of education and beuracracy, you'll see things improve across the board after this including the economy and overall national competency.

This is exactly what Pakistan needs to recover from being the current basket case Banana Republic that it is but it goes against too many elite interests, especially feudal landlords who are sucking its blood with ease.

1. Effective Governance requires more provinces with stronger localised empowerment. Mayors, municipalities.

2. CSS needs a complete overhaul with a new modern relevant syllabus and specialisation for specific fields.

3. Huge national educational drive, massive expidenture needed here.

4. Anti-feudal land reforms.

Get rid of old British colonial posts and create a new native system that delivers for Pakistan in the 21st century.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Feudalism

 

[Toxic]

Feudalism

Basically this, districts in interior Sindh are essentially fiefdoms of waderas

 

[Distant_Observer]

There are no excuses now for Pakistani engineers. Time to design and build your own engines. They should have access to Chinese LLMs.