NATO to acquire up to 10 Saab GlobalEye

[Falcon26]

Interesting to find out if PAF has got the "ER" update on the radars we have in our Erieyes. If so the only difference between our planes and the GlobalEye would be the Searchwater Maritime radar and the Sea Sultans will have that anyway.

I am guessing in the new birds we ordered and the rebuild ones we obtained "ER"?

Highly doubtful that Pakistani Erieyes are equipped with the ER version.

 

[Falcon26]

Working more with Turkieye makes more sense for Pakistan given the level of possible technology transfer that is possible. It will be interesting to see in years to come, what if anything Turkieye does in light of Sea Sultan. Will Turkieye purchase the Sea Sultan, or will it want to develop its own solution from scratch, that will tell which way the relationship with Pakistan go in the long run, ie is Turkieye looking to become the next "China" for Pakistan, or it is prepared to give and take as platform partners.

Pakistan can make Turkey buying the Sea Sultan contingent on Pakistan buying KAAN and other Turkish platforms. The Sea Sultan is quite advanced in terms of capabilities and NATO compatible so there’s no excuse for Turkey not operating them.

But you are right in that this will determine whether the relationship is one-way or mutually beneficial. Pakistan has given Turkey scale for their landmark products by ordering them in significant numbers (Ada, Jinnah, drones, software etc etc), it’s time for Turkey to reciprocate.

 

[Colt_Six_Nine]

Additional Comments:

1. Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) is currently reviewing the possibility of adding aerial refueling to the SAAB GlobalEye / Bombardier Global 6000/6500 air fame.

2. My understanding is that the F-35 uses something called a Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) to communicate with AEW&C while maintaining low observability. I do not believe the GlobalEye comes with MADL. It would be interesting to see if the Americans allow Canada/Europe to integrate the MADL into the GlobalEye program. Lack of MADL can potentially be an issue in the GlobalEye's overall capability to support NATO F-35s. (The future of Canada's order of 88 * F-35s is also surrounded by uncertainty as the Canadian government is revaluating its 2023 order of 88 * F-35s for the RCAF.)

The only down side I see with the SaaB GlodenEye is that it cant be refuelled mid air. This means it has to be replaced when on long patrols , potentially doubling the number of aircraft needed for 24 hour coastal security. Otherwise this is a fantastic aircraft for Canada and for other European nations. Maybe the next version will have refuelling capability.

Bombardier is Canada's own company. If a 8 - 12 jet NATO and a 5 - 6 jet RCAF order exists, aerial refueling can possibly be added.

The internet suggests the Saab GlobalEye has a ~11,000km range and a 11 to 13 hr flight time (without aerial refueling). That seems to be significantly more than the E-7 Wedgetail. But E-7 Wedgetail has refueling capability.

 

[Colt_Six_Nine]

Not in the numbers before the cancellation.

I believe the US Congress is sort of forcing the USAF to continue with the program. Which makes sense as USAF had to call in Aussie E-7 Wedgetail(s) in Iran.

 

[royalharris]

Pakistan can make Turkey buying the Sea Sultan contingent on Pakistan buying KAAN and other Turkish platforms. The Sea Sultan is quite advanced in terms of capabilities and NATO compatible so there’s no excuse for Turkey not operating them.

But you are right in that this will determine whether the relationship is one-way or mutually beneficial. Pakistan has given Turkey scale for their landmark products by ordering them in significant numbers (Ada, Jinnah, drones, software etc etc), it’s time for Turkey to reciprocate.

Weapons manufactured by Turkey are not a necessity for Pakistan, yet Pakistan still opted to procure Turkish armaments to support turkey.
Now Turkey, in turn, is purchasing large quantities of weapons from Pakistan to support Pakistan.

 

[Michael]

I posted a very long email to Quwa. Hopefully they will respond just as well as they responded to my previous questions in the recent podcast. I would Pakistan to avoid the Chinese stack as much as possible.

In international relations, people-to-people exchanges between countries are merely "seasoning," while interests are the "main course."

You should investigate why Turkey is "good" to Pakistan. What tangible benefits have they actually gained from Pakistan? Or, in your opinion, what has Pakistan offered in exchange for these benefits?

Yeah, guess issue now is Chinese are offering everything as a ready made package which has its obvious benefits (synced up AEW, 5th Gen jets, SAMs etc)

The biggest and most crucial difference is that SAAB's entire AEW&C series, whether GlobalEye or EriEye, does not support direct fire control. This means that none of them support true "A shoots B guides".

They can provide fire control-level radar detection data and transmit it to the fighter jet via data link, allowing the fighter jet to operate without its radar activated. However, the fighter jet still needs to remain in its combat position to provide fire control correction data to the BVR missile until the BVR missile's onboard terminal guidance radar is activated and locks onto the target. ------ The 5.7 India-Pakistan air battle used this method.

This operational method differs from a true "A-fires-B-guides" strategy. In the latter, after a fighter jet launches a BVR missile, it can completely withdraw from the attack chain to perform other missions or return to base. In other words, even if a fighter jet is destroyed immediately after launching a BVR missile, its BVR missile can still complete its strike mission with the assistance of an early warning aircraft or other guidance systems.

However, GlobalEye or EriEye cannot achieve this capability. When the aircraft carrying the BVR missile is destroyed or loses its guidance capability, they cannot directly take over the guidance and correction work of the BVR missile.

 

[Yommie]

And your Father Russia is cowards to attack weak country

Russians are weak people.

 

[MMM-E]

Pakistan can make Turkey buying the Sea Sultan contingent on Pakistan buying KAAN and other Turkish platforms.

Pakistan has given Turkey scale for their landmark products by ordering them in significant numbers (Ada, Jinnah, drones, software etc etc), it’s time for Turkey to reciprocate.

1 -- Turkiye develops its own ALP-200A Airborne Early Warning (AEW) Radar System
( Turkiye has its own GaN based AESA Radar technologies )


2 -- Turkiye has developed ASOJ-23A stand off jammer Aircraft to paralyze enemy Radars from 400 km away ... ( only USA and Turkiye in NATO )... even Israel doesnt have this technology

Pakistan buys ASOJ-23A from Turkiye



3 -- Turkiye can buy Aircraft from Boeing or Airbus or Embraer Lineage 1000E to develop its own Long-Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft (LRMPA)

Turkiye has enough technology to equipe LRMPA with full of indigenous Systems and Weapons

( Aselsan FULMAR-500 AESA Radar with range of 320 nm - 600 km )


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEA SULTAN uses Italian SeaSpray AESA Radar

Turkiye and Pakistan can work together to increase capabilities of SEA SULTAN for both Turkish and Pakistan Navies

-- Aselsan FULMAR-500 AESA Radar with range of 320 nm- 592 km
-- Aselsan ASELFLIR-600 E/O System to see Warships from 220 km away
(Multi-Spectral Sensor Array )

-- Aselsan EW Suite ( unique ) ESM - Jamming - RWR and Integrated Self-Protection Suite

-- Aselsan SONOBUOYS

-- Aselsan Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) is a highly sensitive sensor used in Anti-Submarine Warfare

also Aselsan YILDIRIM DIRCM ( LASER Weapon )

and advanced weapons like
-- ORKA Torpedo
-- ATMACA-UM anti-ship Missile ( 500+ km )
-- SOM-J stealth anti-ship Missile ( 275 km )
-- RAMJET powered supersonic anti-ship Missile
-- 300-ER supersonic Ballistic Missile with TV camera seeker ( 500+ km )

 

[Ak01]

It is cheaper to buy off the shelf and not incur the R&D costs, then build yourself. It always came down to this in Europe.

However, with the antics of Trump(partly) and how the US establishment has allowed Trump to operate without any "guard-rails" on his conduct has really really shaken the core of Europe and USA allies world wide. No one can trust the USA, and everyone is now looking to remove their military/security dependency on the USA as much as possible.

Europe is heavily investing in its own home grown industry now, with preference for local solutions.

In the same way that Spain is buying the Hurjet from Turkieye, maybe Europe can also buy the Sea Sultan from Pakistan once it is completed, certified like you said. Most of the insides of the Sea Sultan is western anyway with integration of the platform being done in Pakistan, and i suspect with little in the way of Chinese technology inside it.

I suspect what will hold back the Sea Sultan, relative to the P8 is the cost compromise equation between capability and cost, where PN always goes for the cheaper solution to save money it cannot afford and other countries wanting a more higher end capable platform.

Let see - it will be funny to see Europe buying the Sea Sultan from Pakistan, given how many sanctions Europe had applied to Pakistan.

The unfortunate flaw is the SS is not ITAR free, plus, the swedes built basically the exact same thing around the global express platform and it went nowhere really.

 

[Falcon26]

The unfortunate flaw is the SS is not ITAR free, plus, the swedes built basically the exact same thing around the global express platform and it went nowhere really.

Welcome back, brother.