Oman examines JF-17 fighter jet purchase with Pakistan and China while operating F-16s and Eurofighters

[Blain2]

When we prioritize exports, it creates fiscal space for GoP/PAC/PAF to replenish our own fleet. The two are not independent of each other.

 

[Yasser76]

When we prioritize exports, it creates fiscal space for GoP/PAC/PAF to replenish our own fleet. The two are not independent of each other.

Agreed, but lack of signficant capacity at PAC means fleet replenishment cannot be done concurrently with exports.

Two very different examples

Typhoon - 4 production lines in different countries, exports and home orders all delivered on time

Rafale - Single limited production line, export orders are late and home air force is left with only 100 jets after 15 years despite ordering twice that number

 

[Trailer23]

View attachment 220188

Shocking...

Didn't you Lock another one of these Topics earlier.

Wonder which f#*kin' idiot wrote this article.

I suppose the better question is ... if he wrote it out of boredom while sitting on the f#ckin' .

Pretty spectacular if people from our side truly believe in these fantasies that Pakistan will ever sell to one of the GCC Nations. I believe the term is called: Pipe Dreams

You know, when we start believing in articles written by unreliable "sources", we've pretty much entered the realm of Indian defence "analysts".

 

[Death_Zone]

Rafale - Single limited production line, export orders are late and home air force is left with only 100 jets after 15 years despite ordering twice that number

only the "single line" is true, and maybe not for a long time (India).
-limited production : 28 expected this year. Ramp to 3/month already on track.
-export orders late : source please. For me not a single jet ordered was not delivered according to the shedule of the contract, ie globally 3 years after 1st bank wire (that may come months after the ink of the contract, as seen with Qatar).
- French air forces to day : 152 Rafale (including the 41 of the Navy).

 

[Blain2]

Agreed, but lack of signficant capacity at PAC means fleet replenishment cannot be done concurrently with exports.

Two very different examples

Typhoon - 4 production lines in different countries, exports and home orders all delivered on time

Rafale - Single limited production line, export orders are late and home air force is left with only 100 jets after 15 years despite ordering twice that number

But the Typhoon solution does not carry over in our case. Chinese want to focus more on their next generation fighter production so PAC is the only option left. Perhaps PAC can increase production capacity.

 

[Yasser76]

only the "single line" is true, and maybe not for a long time (India).
-limited production : 28 expected this year. Ramp to 3/month already on track.
-export orders late : source please. For me not a single jet ordered was not delivered according to the shedule of the contract, ie globally 3 years after 1st bank wire (that may come months after the ink of the contract, as seen with Qatar).
- French air forces to day : 152 Rafale (including the 41 of the Navy).

Rakesh

Calm down, it is not even your country.

1) 2025 - 26 Rafails made
2) 220 outstanding orders so at current rate, even taking into account your 28 planes in 2026 that is almost 8 years to fill. So if production does not go over 28 per year and a plane was ordered tomorrow it would arrive close to 3035. Even an idiot (and I include you as one Rakesh) will work out planes will take a long time to get to customers
3) I stated the French Air Force has around 110-112 planes. I need to tell you something that may upset you, but the French Force is not the French Navy.

Let me know if the above needs more explanation or indeed I need to draw it in crayon for you

 

[Yasser76]

But the Typhoon solution does not carry over in our case. Chinese want to focus more on their next generation fighter production so PAC is the only option left. Perhaps PAC can increase production capacity.

Well this is it yaar, we signed a 40 plane deal with Azeris, maybe the better idea was to get them to assemble planes themselves and leave PAC to look after PAF, but then of course I am assuming Azeris have capability or desire to build it themselves

 

[Death_Zone]

Rakesh

Calm down, it is not even your country.

1) 2025 - 26 Rafails made
2) 220 outstanding orders so at current rate, even taking into account your 28 planes in 2026 that is almost 8 years to fill. So if production does not go over 28 per year and a plane was ordered tomorrow it would arrive close to 3035. Even an idiot (and I include you as one Rakesh) will work out planes will take a long time to get to customers
3) I stated the French Air Force has around 110-112 planes. I need to tell you something that may upset you, but the French Force is not the French Navy.

Let me know if the above needs more explanation or indeed I need to draw it in crayon for you

Once again, lack of accuracy my dear Stud.

26 jet produce in 2025 and not 25. please fing the Dassault official report (it's in french. Ask me if you want some help to understand it) : https://www.dassault-aviation.com/f...-en-nombre-davions-neufs-au-31-decembre-2025/

28 planes in 2026, more in 2027 as the production is growing to 33/year.
At the end of july the back log was 208 => a little bit more than 6 years.
The french remaining back log, 45 jets, has already be postponed to be produce directly to F5 std.
So the export back log will be delivered in less than 5 years.

No, you stated that french AF only have 100 jets, not 110 or 112. And when the french carrier is not at sea, the navy Rafale are doing the same job as air force ones, including air policy.

Is it clear for you or you want me to use more simple words ?

 

[hussain0216]

Well this is it yaar, we signed a 40 plane deal with Azeris, maybe the better idea was to get them to assemble planes themselves and leave PAC to look after PAF, but then of course I am assuming Azeris have capability or desire to build it themselves

They don't

Building a line is a complicated, expensive task and requires a lot of training for personnel and years of effort

The only option Pakistan really has is maximize it's production as high as possible and allocate some JF17 for export and some for our own needs


Whilst all export news is not true, the JF17 indeed has a lot of interest, currently we are fulfilling the Azerbaijan order
Other countries are waiting, many countries won't place a order until they get a firm confirmation from PAF that a order can be completed in a reasonable amount of time

Some orders will be lost because we can't make them within the next few years and countries won't confirm a order if they have to wait to 2035+


Pakistan will need to find a solution to make sure PAF is getting new planes to replace older ones and export orders are fulfilled to gain profits to reinvest in the PAF and platform development

 

[Ali_Baba]

Oman has defense ties with india.

Things change. Lets see how Oman see's the future?

 

[Blain2]

Well this is it yaar, we signed a 40 plane deal with Azeris, maybe the better idea was to get them to assemble planes themselves and leave PAC to look after PAF, but then of course I am assuming Azeris have capability or desire to build it themselves

Yes, I don't see many other options on the horizon besides PAC and China.

 

[Yasser76]

Once again, lack of accuracy my dear Stud.

26 jet produce in 2025 and not 25. please fing the Dassault official report (it's in french. Ask me if you want some help to understand it) : https://www.dassault-aviation.com/f...-en-nombre-davions-neufs-au-31-decembre-2025/

28 planes in 2026, more in 2027 as the production is growing to 33/year.
At the end of july the back log was 208 => a little bit more than 6 years.
The french remaining back log, 45 jets, has already be postponed to be produce directly to F5 std.
So the export back log will be delivered in less than 5 years.

No, you stated that french AF only have 100 jets, not 110 or 112. And when the french carrier is not at sea, the navy Rafale are doing the same job as air force ones, including air policy.

Is it clear for you or you want me to use more simple words ?

The French Air Force is not the French Navy. How retarded are you?

Any sources for the 208 figure Rakesh? Even if they got it down to 6 years, that is one of the longest waits for a fighter in history. In 6 years technology can change quickly, as China and US have shown. 6 years or 8 years. Its a terrible situation.

Anyway, happy to discuss this in the relevant thread, you have form for derailing so not going to entertain that this time Raju

 

[Michael]

But the Typhoon solution does not carry over in our case. Chinese want to focus more on their next generation fighter production so PAC is the only option left. Perhaps PAC can increase production capacity.

Previously, it was reported that the production capacity for the J-10 series of fighter jets at the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) is approximately 60 aircraft per year. ------ Among the primary fighter jets currently in service with the Chinese military, this represents the lowest production volume.

For the JF-17 series, the primary constraint is the volume of orders—encompassing both requirements from the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and export contracts. Without a large number of orders to support it, there is no point in increasing the production line's capacity.

If PAC were to invest in expanding the capacity of its existing production lines to enable an annual output of 60–100 JF-17 series fighter jets, how many years of production could the current order book sustain? Ultimately, any investment in production facilities is incorporated into the cost of production—this is a fundamental principle of industry.

 

[Yasser76]

Yes, I don't see many other options on the horizon besides PAC and China.

I fear you could be right, and chances are Chinese may not be that interested in making them, but at the same time they are marketing and pushing JF-17 at shows

 

[Yasser76]

Previously, it was reported that the production capacity for the J-10 series of fighter jets at the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) is approximately 60 aircraft per year.

Among the primary fighter jets currently in service with the Chinese military, this represents the lowest production volume.

For the JF-17 series, the primary constraint is the volume of orders—encompassing both requirements from the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and export contracts. Without a large number of orders to support it, there is no point in increasing the production line's capacity.

If PAC were to invest in expanding the capacity of its existing production lines to enable an annual output of 60–100 JF-17 series fighter jets, how many years of production could the current order book sustain? Ultimately, any investment in production facilities is incorporated into the cost of production—this is a fundamental principle of industry.

Very good points