Operation Azm-e-Istehkam | آپریشن عزم استحکام

[Areesh]

By intelligence, I meant ISI. ISI has more budget than Pakistan navy. They should do proper intelligence based ops with other agencies and eliminate all the TTP agents and their network. If local govt has to do it then you have to give them funds so they can build their intel & security to deal with it.
A military operation means that regular troops move in to take control, it can have adverse outcome as people are already against it. Plus apparently there is no territory that is under TTP control. Why the army wants to occupy own land? Emotions of the nation are against army's current leadership for so much obvious reasons anyways, the nation already knows where the priority of current military chief lies. He is so blatantly involved in politics, elections and elsewhere. A controversial / retired General doing a military op in a province where people already are saying they don't want any operation and are already frustrated with army's overall role. That's a recipe for disaster.

Intelligence based operations are already happening even right now

But apparently that isn't enough already. CTD kpk is also doing it's part in its capacity but still militancy isn't in control

So what more should be done other than military operation ? What is PTI plan for it?

 

[Bilal]

Why should I don't talk about PTI?

It is in government in kpk and also is strongly opposed to any military operation against ttp? Obviously I would talk about it

You mentioned CTD and intelligence as the solution to ttp menace. Please explain how PTI government has used these in its own capacity to curb ttp terrorism and is it actually working?

We can criticize army for its shortcomings. I do it myself all the time. But I want to know about PTI solution for curbing militancy since it surely seems to have some solution other than military operation up its sleeves. We want to know more about it

You want to ask PTI. And not ask gate keeper on how large scale cross movement happened in the first place? Bhai yehi sawal na ker ker ke yahan tak pohach gai hien. Enough is enough.

Love how we portray complete disasters with a slap on the wrist by calling it “shortcomings”. lol what, bro this ain’t no short coming, it’s ****ing fundamental question.

 

[hussain0216]

so? Who has been provided everything they asked for as experts? And given full control over Afghan policy.

And then after that per their sock puppet TTP has taken control of several areas. If so, which heads should roll?

Why should any heads roll??

In the last few years, they took down and destroyed the Afghan Republic, the managed to kick out USA, NATO and India from Afghanistan

That destroyed a long term strategic threat to Pakistan


The Taliban are not our friends, at the end of the day they are the same Afghan scum that has ALWAYS attacked us

I've said it before I see afghans as no less a venomous enemy then Hindus and we should treat afghans just the same

So Afghanistan is a dump full of idiots, all their neighbors hate them and they desperately need Pakistan to help in trade port access, market etc

Yet here we are endless fassad from the Afghans
It's complicated by the tribal areas population being full of donkeys no different to the Taliban themselves



All in all the population in that part of our region, are just backwards stupid on a different level


So we were ALWAYS GOING TO GET FALL OUT,
The plan and hope was that the Afghans would have enough intelligence to understand that Afghanistan needed help and support from Pakistan and that would curtail the Afghans behavior, and that would allow more open borders, friendship and trade.



Yet here we are the same endless Afghan fassad, the endless victimhood the endless attacks on girls schools or polio teams , or picnickers


At the end of the day peace has been tried and now you NEED to kill or remove the Afghan from our land
Get rid of the Afghans everywhere in our country


Their is NO SOLUTION, only MANAGEMENT of the problem
And every few years we will need a mow the lawn operation where we kill the Afghans and get rid of a bunch of more of them to get some limited peace

 

[Bilal]

It's like

Main nai 3 doctors ko dikhaya. But still meri bemari ka ilaj nahi hua to ab main kisi doctor ko nahi dikhao ga aur bemari k sath mar jao ga

All I want to know is what exactly is PTI plan to crush ttp other than military operation. Share that plan and if I find that solution workable then I would fully support that plan and oppose any military operation in kpk

Except 3 doctor ko nahi, aik hi doctor ko dekhaya. Balke us doctor ke haath mien apni zindagi ke saaray mamlat de diya aur abh woh Dr aa ke bakwas maar raha hai aur mujh se sawal ker raha hai ke tera ilaaj theek kiyun nahi hoa.

 

[PakAl]

To understand this we should look at why the previous operations were not 100% successful, they have reduced terrorism but not completely finished. Pakistan has failed to implement a successful anti extremism ideology, the same extremist who supported terrorism and terrorists, called them holy warriors are sitting in the government chairs. Tahir Asharfi is one big terrorist who is protected by the state, there are many others who are acting on TV channels to be peace makers but behind the scenes are in bed with the extremists, these same people conspire against the state. Our governments have still not informed us how did the terrorists got brainwashed, who issued fatwas of jihad against Pakistan state, army and people, who declared army as kufaar and mushrikeen, which madrassas they receive training from, who gives the funding.

 

[Awwad]

You want to ask PTI. And not ask gate keeper on how large scale cross movement happened in the first place? Bhai yehi sawal na ker ker ke yahan tak pohach gai hien. Enough is enough.

Love how we portray complete disasters with a slap on the wrist by calling it “shortcomings”. lol what, bro this ain’t no short coming, it’s ****ing fundamental question.

Thank God PTI never came into power earlier, otherwise they would have put TTP creation on PTI too LOL!

Just look at their audacity, PTI only came in power in 2018. Pakistan suffered most from the hands of TTP / terrorism from 2005 to 17. Still they have audacity to blame PTI LMAO!

We are really debating with totally dishonest people. People void of reality or just bias & straight face liars.

 

[Bilal]

Thank God PTI never came into power earlier, otherwise they would have put TTP creation on PTI too LOL!

Just look at their audacity, PTI only came in power in 2018. Pakistan suffered most from the hands of TTP / terrorism from 2005 to 17. Still they have audacity to blame PTI LMAO!

We are really debating with totally dishonest people. People void of reality or just bias & straight face liars.

Forget PTI . We should ask the fundamental question and from the one who was given full control on the matter and provided all resources for it.

On a side note. I remember someone back in 2013/14 asking me, abh tau KPK mien PTI agai hai, abh yeh drone kiyun nahi gira rahay, jhoot bol rahay thay yeh drone per. I was like Salam ho aap per

 

[hussain0216]

To understand this we should look at why the previous operations were not 100% successful, they have reduced terrorism but not completely finished. Pakistan has failed to implement a successful anti extremism ideology, the same extremist who supported terrorism and terrorists, called them holy warriors are sitting in the government chairs. Tahir Asharfi is one big terrorist who is protected by the state, there are many others who are acting on TV channels to be peace makers but behind the scenes are in bed with the extremists, these same people conspire against the state. Our governments have still not informed us how did the terrorists got brainwashed, who issued fatwas of jihad against Pakistan state, army and people, who declared army as kufaar and mushrikeen, which madrassas they receive training from, who gives the funding.

You can't finish terrorism

It is not possible in this part of the region..this is because it's partly ethnocentric issue of afghan wannabe nationalists looking to take control of sovereign Pakistani territory they deem to be theirs

So whilst it's not 100% of the tribal population, a percentage of them at least support the terrorist

And wider portion of the wider pashtun population, have at least some sympathy to perceived fellow "afghans"

This is why EVEN AFTER multiple peace talks, released TTP terrorists.
Attempt's to reach out to Afghanistan and Taliban
And TTP terrorism and murder

The population STILL does not want the Pakistani military to slaughter the TTP scumbags


So once again, their is NO SOLUTION, just repeated mowing the lawn operations
And continuous pressure on the Afghans,
Removal of Afghan population from Pakistan,
Increased border patrol, walls, fencing etc

That's all you can do, because you can't kill the ethnocentric jahilat of the afghans

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

To understand this we should look at why the previous operations were not 100% successful, they have reduced terrorism but not completely finished. Pakistan has failed to implement a successful anti extremism ideology, the same extremist who supported terrorism and terrorists, called them holy warriors are sitting in the government chairs. Tahir Asharfi is one big terrorist who is protected by the state, there are many others who are acting on TV channels to be peace makers but behind the scenes are in bed with the extremists, these same people conspire against the state. Our governments have still not informed us how did the terrorists got brainwashed, who issued fatwas of jihad against Pakistan state, army and people, who declared army as kufaar and mushrikeen, which madrassas they receive training from, who gives the funding.

Ex NSA Moeed Yousuf called the period after an offensive, a "Negative peace".

"For those of us in the peace-building profession, however, ‘absence of violence’ is a wholly unsatisfactory concept. Peace-builders like to talk of ‘negative’ versus ‘positive’ peace. The former denotes a mere absence of violence, implying that countries in conflict have managed to subdue active and frequent acts of violence. Most countries that claim to have ended terrorism achieve this state. But data shows that this is not enough. In many cases, negative peace reverts to violence.

Positive peace is a far more ambitious benchmark to achieve. It implies that the deeper causes that make populations vulnerable to terrorism have to be tackled by addressing virtually everything encompassing ‘good governance’, that is improving service delivery; ending political alienation among segments of the population; reversing extreme ideologies; and strengthening rule of law. It also implies an effort to reduce the incentives for domestic terrorists or external actors looking to destabilise a country, or even better, incentivise them to support stability instead." https://herald.dawn.com/news/1398745

Pakistan has never made any major effort for positive peace as he calls it. After ZeA, much of FATA was in ruins. A decade later, much of it is still in ruins. The rebuilding never took off other than some shiny shops in Miranshah. There are some IDPs still in camps. Children still being blown up by IEDs/Mines/unexploded Artillery shells etc. and these are all surface level problems that should have been addressed long ago.

 

[Awwad]

Why should I don't talk about PTI?

It is in government in kpk and also is strongly opposed to any military operation against ttp? Obviously I would talk about it

You mentioned CTD and intelligence as the solution to ttp menace. Please explain how PTI government has used these in its own capacity to curb ttp terrorism and is it actually working?

We can criticize army for its shortcomings. I do it myself all the time. But I want to know about PTI solution for curbing militancy since it surely seems to have some solution other than military operation up its sleeves. We want to know more about it

LMAO! You need to fix your bias first and then come back LOL!

This is absolutely hilarious! This guy is blaming PTI for all the mess of 2005-2017. Actually we can go even further back, the mess of 80's is also responsible for what we are witnessing today.

You need you head checked. Your obsession with PTI will drive you crazy. HOW on EARTH you can BLAME them when they even didn't existed when you were doing your blunders and creating terrorism? If you really have to blame political people then blame PMLN / PPP for their shitty policies that allowed all the terrorism to start because they ruled the country from 90's to 2017. In their rule terrorism flourished. But I am not like you a dumb bias, I blame the ones who are truly responsible. These are General Zia first and then General Musharraf. Then failures of ISI & military throughout.

Blaming a provinicial govt for your own mess ups that pre-dates its creation can be done only by a totally mind fucked guy. That's apparently you. Sorry, but I had to be blunt. How on earth you even live with such stupidity. You are essentially saying Jamie is killed because of John. But the fact is John wasn't even born when Jamie was killed. Try to grasp your mind over when and how terrorism started and who are responsible people for it. Develop enough maturity to understand that GHQ won't let anyone run foreign affairs how come they will let security affairs run by someone else. Try to understand that where the authority lies, try to understand who gets the funds for this specific job. Being a bais & brainwashed all the time don't look good.

 

[PakAl]

I get that both PTI and jui f are against any military operation in kpk

But then we also have this situation where dozens and dozens of kpk police personnel have been killed by ttp scums, people getting abducted for ransom by same ttp scums, patrolling of highways by once again same ttp scums, blowing up girls schools again by same ttp scums etc etc

What plan both PTI and jui f have other than military operations to solve these issues and improve law and order. Surely PTI has provincial government in kpk so I am sure they would definitely want the best of law and order in their province

What is the alternate plan. Kindly share it with all of us

Imran Khan went to Scotland yard because of violence done by mqm so I am sure that he would have a plan to right terrorism by ttp

Do share it with all of us

JUI, JI, SSP, Lashkar Jangvi and co will never fully support anti ttp operation because deep down they are natural allies. They want talks with ttp, give them power to rule like how they ruled before Pakistan army were sent to tribal areas for the first time in its history. The ttp are like baloch waderas, sindh waderas and punjabi secular elite, if you take action against them then you are looking for trouble. PTI also wants talks because they are in governance and it will affect them the most. North and South waziristan is where the big trouble is.

 

[PakAl]

Are they actually trying to slowly annex the frontier the tribal areas?

Who is? TTP is a militia who is involved in guerilla warfare, it's difficult to eliminate them due to some extremists supporting them.

 

[Foinikas]

Who is? TTP is a militia who is involved in guerilla warfare, it's difficult to eliminate them due to some extremists supporting them.

The Taliban and TTP.

 

[PakAl]

I have shared it multiple times in various threads. Its not just me but many sane people in Pakistan been saying that. For the starters, You need to fix your ISI. Secondly, get people on your side, stop doing blunders. You know why terrorism is here in the first place? You get it right because of Pakistan army leadership of the 80's. General Zia made the foundations for all that, he propagated religious extremism in the country like no other, created 1000s of madrassas of sole reason of jihad. The buffoon of the Pak army used CIA funds for his holy war. A smart General would have spend that money entirely on the army and no other militia, he could have built the defensive & offensive capabilities at Pak's western borders. He was a religious fanatic. Secondly, Another Pak army General jumped in someone's else war and allowed them to bomb the shit out of our tribal areas, that's the sole reason of creation and then further strenghtening of TTP, when US bombs strike funerals killing 100s, then religious people declared jihad against state of Pakistan for allowing all this to happen.

Now come to the military ops, you asked solution from me. You tell me why Army / ISI is failed to end terrorism till now ? Is 80,000 dead not enough of a failure? Secondly, there is so much wrong about this upcoming military op. The military operations are done when you have to take territory back or there is no-go areas. It was neccessary in the past when RAW / NDS were supporting & financing TTP with full throttle and ISPR used to shout that nearly every day that indian embassies & RAW/NDS providing all logistical / financial support to TTP, it even looked true back then because TTP was so strong that they had reached till Swat and held lot of territory. Military op is neccessary in that kind of situation. You don't bring military when terrorists are not holding any area. You bring only your intelligence & CTD units. The solution is intelligence based ops (for that you need competent intelligence agency). My fear is grand military op may cause more hatred among locals and if God forbid collateral damage happens and civilians die then this will become a huge tragedy.

Great post. Someone should ask question on why our intelligence agencies have failed, why anti terrorism police, the frontier corps failing. Where are the tribal lashkars who supported Pakistan army, the anti ttp militias, the money for development, schools etc.

 

[PakAl]

The Taliban and TTP.

They hold no territory but only are involved in attacks here and there, they cross the border from Afghanistan and attack then run off or get killed, then the next small unit does the same. The border is too large to control. Pakistan should be upgrading their security forces, bringing development to the region so the locals oppose any attacks, then slowly finish the ttp ideology which has been propagated for 40 years.