Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[SteppeWolff]

The border is impossible to seal. Impossible! You and others could benefit from studying the US-Mexico border and the Pakistan-Afghan border is far more difficult to control even if angels were guarding the border from both sides. Look at the terrain, the geography, the ravines, the forests, the mountains, the streams, the houses straddling, the length of the border...
There is no fence in the world unless it is 3 feet concrete thick, goes 10 feet into the ground, 20 feet above ground, manned every 1 KM is going to stop people. Human beings are incredible in finding their ways around obstacles and all it would take would be a few hundreds every month from Afghanistan to manage to cross into Pakistan to blow themselves up.

Who said anything about sealing the border?

The objective is control, not perfection.

No border on earth is 100% sealed. not the US Mexico border, not Korea’s DMZ, not Israel’s borders.

Yet infiltration rates can change dramatically depending on surveillance and response.

The real question is "Can organized infiltration operate reliably?"

Mountains, ravines, and forests actually help defenders if used correctly. Because movement funnels into passes, valleys, dry riverbeds, livestock trails, settlement corridors. Humans don’t teleport. Terrain forces repetition. You don’t watch 2,600 km equally, you effectively monitor movement chokepoints.

You can have modern border control that tries to detect intent. The winning model is througj sensors detect movement, cheap ISR drones tracks it, response forces intercept later.

And yh humans always find a way. Smugglers will adapt, organised infiltration would get compromised and that is the goal

 

[SteppeWolff]

Bomb "properly" means what? You always want to keep a door open so both sides can climb down the escalation ladder. Our purpose is not to kill Afghans at random. We targeted TTP on their soil. There are only so many targets of opportunity available at any given time.

TTP have made a self-admission that they were training on the Afghan soil.

Goodluck with climbing down the escalation ladder when they are burning your men alive and bombing checkpoints deep inside Pakistan in Punjab.

 

[hussain0216]

NRF ? The same people you undermined for 20 years by supporting the Taliban ? I will give you a hint how it will end. The NRF will use Pakistan to achieve its goals then tell Pakistan to get lost, just like all the other Afghans.

Getting lost is fine

We will take get lost

What we can't accept is afghans coming to Pakistan to attack us

If the NRF accept a deal that they will control their terrorism coming from Afghanistan, then they be a option for us

 

[Blain2]

Goodluck with climbing down the escalation ladder when they are burning your men alive and bombing checkpoints deep inside Pakistan in Punjab.

Well we can't start hyperventilating and responding without thinking.

Some lines have been drawn that are not enunciated. That is the right way to go about this because the Taliban don't know when punitive action is coming.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Goodluck with climbing down the escalation ladder when they are burning your men alive and bombing checkpoints deep inside Pakistan in Punjab.

Best remedy for the above is to nuke afghanistan and wipe them ALL OUT.

 

[Blain2]

Getting lost is fine

We will take get lost

What we can't accept is afghans coming to Pakistan to attack us

If the NRF accept a deal that they will control their terrorism coming from Afghanistan, then they be a option for us

I agree with you. At a minimum, Pakistan needs to keep its options open. Clearly the "Pakhtun" Taliban have no qualms talking with the RSS bigots so why does Pakistan need to stay faitful to the Pakhtuns in Afg? At a minimum, Pakistan needs to have some leverage with Tajiks/Uzbeks.

 

[Bilal]

Pakistan is just being reactive. It needs a proper concerted effort to make the cost unbearable.

 

[Ak01]

Pakistan is just being reactive. It needs a proper concerted effort to make the cost unbearable.

indeed, we're just cucked, we know we have no way of doing this, financially, politically but also, we would get ripped to shreds by the boycott/protest crowds.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Well we can't start hyperventilating and responding without thinking.

Some lines have been drawn that are not enunciated. That is the right way to go about this because the Taliban don't know when punitive action is coming.

This might be a game of chess with measured moves, unspoken lines, and a shared ladder to climb down. But the TTP and the Afghan Taliban aren’t playing chess. they’re playing arson. You cannot climb down a ladder when the ground floor is on fire.

You speak of keeping a door open for "de-escalation". Tell me, what door exists for the families of soldiers who were burned alive? What ladder do they climb down?

Strategic patience is a virtue, but strategic paralysis is a death sentence.

The purpose of bombing is not to kill Afghans at random, I agree. But the purpose of "proper" bombing is to make the cost of harboring our enemies so astronomically high that the host regime is forced to choose between its sovereignty and its guests. Right now, we are paying the cost of precision, while they enjoy the benefits of impunity. If our "precise" bombing doesn't change their calculus, then it’s not strategic it’s just expensive venting.

 

[Meengla]

I agree with you. At a minimum, Pakistan needs to keep its options open. Clearly the "Pakhtun" Taliban have no qualms talking with the RSS bigots so why does Pakistan need to stay faitful to the Pakhtuns in Afg? At a minimum, Pakistan needs to have some leverage with Tajiks/Uzbeks.

The Afghan foreign minister in his recent visit to India went the farthest of any Afghan leader in conceding India's claim over Kashmir. It was stunning to see for a few morsels he guy went that far.

 

[Watandar]

Getting lost is fine

We will take get lost

What we can't accept is afghans coming to Pakistan to attack us

If the NRF accept a deal that they will control their terrorism coming from Afghanistan, then they be a option for us

Why didn't you go for such a deal in the 20 years the NRF aka Northern Alliance was in power in Kabul ?

 

[Bilal]

indeed, we're just cucked, we know we have no way of doing this, financially, politically but also, we would get ripped to shreds by the boycott/protest crowds.

1:x response need to be norm for every attack. In Afghanistan context it can be done quite cost effectively too given that there is a complete lack of defensive capability and now there are options available like 82mm carrier drones. Do it cheap and in large numbers, Everytime!

 

[Blain2]

This might be a game of chess with measured moves, unspoken lines, and a shared ladder to climb down. But the TTP and the Afghan Taliban aren’t playing chess. they’re playing arson. You cannot climb down a ladder when the ground floor is on fire.

You speak of keeping a door open for "de-escalation". Tell me, what door exists for the families of soldiers who were burned alive? What ladder do they climb down?

Strategic patience is a virtue, but strategic paralysis is a death sentence.

The purpose of bombing is not to kill Afghans at random, I agree. But the purpose of "proper" bombing is to make the cost of harboring our enemies so astronomically high that the host regime is forced to choose between its sovereignty and its guests. Right now, we are paying the cost of precision, while they enjoy the benefits of impunity. If our "precise" bombing doesn't change their calculus, then it’s not strategic it’s just expensive venting.

There is no "paralysis". Action is being taken. What we don't know is the right quantum.

That will require calibration.

I share with you the sentiment that cost has to be raised.

 

[flyingorca]

Why didn't you go for such a deal in the 20 years the NRF aka Northern Alliance was in power in Kabul ?

Yeah US wouldnt mind that.

 

[Blain2]

1:x response need to be norm for every attack. In Afghanistan context it can be done quite cost effectively too given that there is a complete lack of defensive capability and now there are options available like 82mm carrier drones. Do it cheap and in large numbers, Everytime!

Actually it needs to be the QPQ+ formula used with India to set the right level of deterrence with the Taliban in Kabul.

TTP is a fringe element inside of Afghanistan, so most Afghans don't see them. If Pakistan reacts more powerfully, it will cause people in Afghanistan to see the costs being inflicted by their state policy and may lead people to start asking questions as to why such strikes are happening. That may put added pressure on the Taliban.