Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[iron shrapnel]

BYC would obviously remain silent on this particular incident even though the dead are baloch

I think we all know the reason behind silence of BYC in this incident

Only some lahori meethay consider them legitimate... They never wanted to function within state parameters only wanted validation that could be used for further radicalization.. & you have the EU with soft backing... They will increase their footprint once Chinese and U.S really start to hoard precious metals and EU feels the heat... Most of their proprietary tech has either been copied or in the phase of being replaced with more advanced tech either by U.S or China.. They have also lost considerable influence in Africa...As for Software based products, they also lack ecosystems, and will probably lag seriously behind in the data wars...

 

[Aliso5]

Only some lahori meethay consider them legitimate... They never wanted to function within state parameters only wanted validation that could be used for further radicalization.. & you have the EU with soft backing... They will increase their footprint once Chinese and U.S really start to hoard precious metals and EU feels the heat... Most of their proprietary tech has either been copied or in the phase of being replaced with more advanced tech either by U.S or China.. They have also lost considerable influence in Africa...As for Software based products, they also lack ecosystems, and will probably lag seriously behind in the data wars...

EU want's some shares in minerals. or simply they just want to plunder 3rd world countries even when they are lacking capability.

 

[That_Guy]

Weekly attacks, and yet nothing is being done other than a few strikes here and there against the culprits.

I miss Raheel Shareef. If he was around, this would've been handled by now.

 

[Blain2]

Dude you have not answered one simple question so far i wonder why.
You keep saying world doesnt believe in GHQ but we continue to see Pakistan being called an ally by american establishment. I not sure which world are you talking about. Can you pls name name here?

You won't get an answer that makes any sense. It is constant deflection by resorting to the tired old "Taliban is Army's creation" nonsense. There is no recognition of the fact that the confused Pashtun politics are undermining KPK and Pakistan's security.

We can't even beat the Baluchi liberation. I warned 20 years ago we couldn't and diplomacy and negotiation was the only solution, now the HinduJews are egging Pakistan to a fight with Afghanistan. Modi just went to Netanyahu to get the green light and Pakistan and Afghanistan are falling into the trap.

The biggest canard/psyop tactic used by Taliban sympathizers to sow confusion is this claim that "HinduJews" are egging Pakistan to fight with Afghanistan. Put that charge on the Afghans, not on Pakistan. It isn't Pakistan that is instigating this fight. We should be absolutely clear on that Khansahib. We are not harboring militants who are attacking the Taliban inside of Afghanistan and carrying out suicide bombings there. The only agents of mayhem here are the Taliban. Their agenda to "bring Islamic nizam in Pakistan" has been hijacked by their minders it seems (if you have any doubts about this, read their open letter on this thread after the air strikes obliterated a 100 of theirs). Otherwise all that the Taliban have to do is to stop the TTP from operating. It is as simple as that. When that happens, trade with Pakistan opens up, open travel for ppl back and forth, inclusion in CPEC etc. But clearly in the Taliban calculus, that benefit is not worth it. So they want to use their proxies to undermine Pakistan.
At the least, Pakistanis have to be absolutely clear minded about this threat/issue.

So please stop self-flaggelating by blaming Pakistan for what the Taliban have done to our relations. Taliban are a bunch of thankless bastards who are biting the very hand that fed and sustained them and their countrymen for 4.5 decades.

 

[Saifullah]

Insurgencies in AFG is the only solution. For every militant attack in Pakistan, Taliban should face the same in Afghanistan. There’s more extremism, ethnic divide, and poverty in Afghanistan than Pakistan. It won’t be creating Taliban 2.0 if Pakistan covertly backs multiple insurgencies in Afghanistan. Taliban are a militia which won’t be able to sustain counter insurgency ops for long. If Pakistan has to keep this cycle repeating for decades it’s still worth it. Until Afghanistan becomes stable and friendly towards Pakistan, it should stay in a state of civil war just like they put Pakistan in. The costs of sustaining insurgencies inside Afghanistan would be a fraction of what counter insurgency ops cost Pakistan. Against the Soviets and NATO, tribal areas were used by Taliban as a base but that won’t be the case for anti Taliban insurgencies in Afghanistan. Taliban don’t have the counter insurgency expertises USA had and doesn’t have the firepower Soviets had. Afghanistan is loosely united with many lawless areas with little Taliban control. These anti Taliban insurgencies can be fully based out of Afghanistan targeting Taliban. The only thing Pakistan would have to do is prevent any militants from crossing the border into Pakistan.
Also, Insurgencies in Afghanistan would break the support Taliban have among Muslim countries and the world. It would be better PR wise for Pakistan than openly launching an aerial campaign in Afghanistan.

 

[Saifullah]

We are not harboring militants who are attacking the Taliban inside of Afghanistan and carrying out suicide bombings there.

Maybe it’s time Pakistan does.

 

[Meengla]

That's very evident now. It's actually sad, because at one point our intelligence network in Afghanistan was probably more widespread than it is in India.

Probably had to do with the 20 years of the NATO presence in Afghanistan where the anti-Pakistan Northern Alliance held the power and the Indian agents running freely in Afghanistan. 20 years is a long time.
But I believe Pakistan has built back significant intelligence assets in Afghanistan in last few years--probably the best foreign intelligence presence in Afghanistan.

 

[Blain2]

Maybe it’s time Pakistan does.

Agree, there is always a first time with everything. ;-)

Insurgencies in AFG is the only solution. For every militant attack in Pakistan, Taliban should face the same in Afghanistan. There’s more extremism, ethnic divide, and poverty in Afghanistan than Pakistan. It won’t be creating Taliban 2.0 if Pakistan covertly backs multiple insurgencies in Afghanistan. Taliban are a militia which won’t be able to sustain counter insurgency ops for long. If Pakistan has to keep this cycle repeating for decades it’s still worth it. Until Afghanistan becomes stable and friendly towards Pakistan, it should stay in a state of civil war just like they put Pakistan in. The costs of sustaining insurgencies inside Afghanistan would be a fraction of what counter insurgency ops cost Pakistan. Against the Soviets and NATO, tribal areas were used by Taliban as a base but that won’t be the case for anti Taliban insurgencies in Afghanistan. Taliban don’t have the counter insurgency expertises USA had and doesn’t have the firepower Soviets had. Afghanistan is loosely united with many lawless areas with little Taliban control. These anti Taliban insurgencies can be fully based out of Afghanistan targeting Taliban. The only thing Pakistan would have to do is prevent any militants from crossing the border into Pakistan.
Also, Insurgencies in Afghanistan would break the support Taliban have among Muslim countries and the world. It would be better PR wise for Pakistan than openly launching an aerial campaign in Afghanistan.

The one question I do have about above is why is the ISI network so atrophied inside Afg. This is something that needs to be completely revamped. I think a lot more needs to be done inside of Afghanistan.

 

[Blain2]

Probably had to do with the 20 years of the NATO presence in Afghanistan where the anti-Pakistan Northern Alliance held the power and the Indian agents running freely in Afghanistan. 20 years is a long time.
But I believe Pakistan has built back significant intelligence assets in Afghanistan in last few years--probably the best foreign intelligence presence in Afghanistan.

I think we need to do more. Not enough and it seems nowhere close to what we had in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s.

Someone mentioned there is an Afghanistan clique inside of GHQ. I think what was meant is that there is a group that favors maintaining ties with the Taliban.

This is the group that I refer to as the Pashtun hand (history tells us that officers like Gens Babar Niazi, Hamid Gul, Assad Durrani, Ehsan ul Haq and others at various tiers actively shaped our policy with regards to Afghans and favored Pashtuns). In general, our military has had a preference for Pashtuns running Afghanistan and that irked the Tajiks and other minorities.. But clearly, this strategy is no longer paying dividends and it has to be revisited. It needs to be rebalanced by building inroads with others.

It has downsides too which is that whoever replaces Taliban, and if they are not Pashtuns, may not align with Pakistan. However, the Pashtun Taliban have been the absolute worst in terms of undermining Pakistan's security and the entire calculus from the 80s should be revisited.

 

[Serendipity]

Iran is not hostile , why should they be?

9 published cross border attacks by Iran against Pakistan in the last 9 years. Not counting their extensive hosting of Indian interests. Go back to the 70s and you will find some even uglier incidents.

 

[Meengla]

I think we need to do more. Not enough and it seems nowhere close to what we had in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s.

Pakistani intelligence presence has rapidly increased to the point that a credible Pakistani analyst even said Pakistan can take out most of the Afghan Taliban leadership in no time.
Not hard to buy 'loyalty' of Afghans.
"I am not questioning your loyalty. I am denying it exists" [Tyrion Lannister to Lord Janice].

 

[Saifullah]

The one question I do have about above is why is the ISI network so atrophied inside Afg. This is something that needs to be completely revamped. I think a lot more needs to be done inside of Afghanistan.

IMO politicians and generals in Pakistan all need to be on one page regarding Afghanistan for ISI to be effective. If every politician or general has a different strategy and policy on Afghanistan or some don’t even support ISI in Afghanistan, then ISI would just be wasting its time there.
Before any external wars Pakistan needs a purge among itself. This is even relevant for wars/skirmishes with India.

 

[Watandar]

Insurgencies in AFG is the only solution. For every militant attack in Pakistan, Taliban should face the same in Afghanistan. There’s more extremism, ethnic divide, and poverty in Afghanistan than Pakistan. It won’t be creating Taliban 2.0 if Pakistan covertly backs multiple insurgencies in Afghanistan. Taliban are a militia which won’t be able to sustain counter insurgency ops for long. If Pakistan has to keep this cycle repeating for decades it’s still worth it. Until Afghanistan becomes stable and friendly towards Pakistan, it should stay in a state of civil war just like they put Pakistan in. The costs of sustaining insurgencies inside Afghanistan would be a fraction of what counter insurgency ops cost Pakistan. Against the Soviets and NATO, tribal areas were used by Taliban as a base but that won’t be the case for anti Taliban insurgencies in Afghanistan. Taliban don’t have the counter insurgency expertises USA had and doesn’t have the firepower Soviets had. Afghanistan is loosely united with many lawless areas with little Taliban control. These anti Taliban insurgencies can be fully based out of Afghanistan targeting Taliban. The only thing Pakistan would have to do is prevent any militants from crossing the border into Pakistan.
Also, Insurgencies in Afghanistan would break the support Taliban have among Muslim countries and the world. It would be better PR wise for Pakistan than openly launching an aerial campaign in Afghanistan.

This is the same failed approach of the last 50 years. And you don't have Saudi or American funding anymore. IMF/World Bank are not going to give a loan for more adventures in Afghanistan.

 

[Blain2]

Pakistani intelligence presence has rapidly increased to the point that a credible Pakistani analyst even said Pakistan can take out most of the Afghan Taliban leadership in no time.
Not hard to buy 'loyalty' of Afghans.
"I am not questioning your loyalty. I am denying it exists" [Tyrion Lannister to Lord Janice].

It has to be seen though. At least currently, it looks like Pakistan has absolutely no leverage inside Afg.

 

[Blain2]

Getting the local networks activated and starting the destabilization of the Taliban project in earnest should be the goal.