Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

many punjabis, baloch, sindhis, etc are also sympathetic to the TTP and Afghanistan due to sharia, whats your point?

This was certainly a big issue in the past but it's not as big today.

You can continue to burry your head but the primary issues remains that Pashtuns are defensive over Afghanistan, and many times the TTP due to ethnicity. So the shenanigans continue.

It's like a parasitic relationship, extract from Pakistan when you can, subvert it when you want.

Then you have the high-on-brainwashing Punjabis saying we iz one n shii trying to cope being leeched off like a golden goose, walking into a disaster in the future. Self-cuckery.

 

[Ak01]

There is no cohesive Pakistani state response most times because there is no cohesive "Pakistani".

In the establishment you have lobby groups belonging to various different sectors, whether it be news & media owners, wadheras, feudals, industrialists, lawyers, provincial elites, business owners, mafia groups like sugar, electricity mafia, etc and last but not least, the military.

Now all of these are of different ethnicities and sects. Many are Pashtuns who are strongly pro-Afghanistan, they advocate for mass immigration into Pakistan for demographic goals, they subtly are very pro Afghan nationalism over Pakistan. Their goals are ethnic interests. They oppose Pakistani interests seen as "Punjabi". Then you have the Sindhis, they don't want challenge to PPP in Sindh or Wadheras, they want Karachi under their control. So on and on with other groups like Shias to Iran.

In this muddled environment, you cannot expect a cohesive policy because you are being internally subverted against your interests. They possess pressure groups like rallying ethno nationalist sentiment.

Now you can hate Afghanistan all you want for being aggressively violent and anti-Pakistan, but the Pashtuns rule their through violence and iron fist for centuries. No issue there, they kill you with impunity.

Pakistan cannot lift a finger without risking upsetting some local lobby group or some international ally.

You be aggressive against Afghanistan? Now you upset the mullahs and Pashtun nationalists that deeply penetrated the state, you risk local riots.

and are the mullahs only Pashtun...or?

This all actually sounds like a foundational Pakistan problem, not an ethnic one.

Scapegoat ethnic groups for central policy failures

Pashtuns had wahabism shoved down their throats, with the goal of turning them into an army against the soviets, what was going to happen to all the military aged men who were fed warrior propaganda to be used as pawns once the soviets were done?

Did you think they'd sit on their hands?

Why do some Pashtuns prefer to be a part of Afghanistan? Is this not as a result of our failures to also put their interests at heart? You dont see western pashtuns longing for Afghanistan, because their lives are better here.

Why pin OUR failures on one group? We can bury our head in the sand all we'd like, yes, there is significant work to be done by the pashtun community on their customs, attitudes, beliefs and alliances, but really, other than some obscure northern tribes who mind their own business, theres not a single group you cant say this about in Pakistan.

The reality is, the Govt MUST start taking the grievances of people seriously and do something about it. Most Pashtuns are and have been fiercely loyal to Pakistan, after all, it was the local tribes that pushed back the afghans, but dont make the mistake of thinking this will always be the case, after all, why would anyone want to be loyal to a state who couldnt care less about them?

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Yeah, lets label the second largest ethnic group of Pakistan as terrorists, after already alienating them heavily, and let's have a full-fledged civil war on our hands.

You sure you have Pakistan's best interests in your mind?

Well that's the difference. States like Turkey didn't try to cope by jumping to appeasement and constantly cuckolding themselves and accepted it. They got results.

I am certainly not a fan of maintaining a country whose interests is just perpetually sucking off a problematic group at everyone else's expense indefinitely. That state does not serve its peoples interests but instead drains them, long term it seeks to destroy their native lands via immigration from the same enemy handing them their dream of Loy Afghanistan.

Should I support a state when its destiny is to cuck its own loyal citizens?

 

[hasssanali8998]

This was certainly a big issue in the past but it's not as big today.

You can continue to burry your head but the primary issues remains that Pashtuns are defensive over Afghanistan, and many times the TTP due to ethnicity. So the shenanigans continue.

It's like a parasitic relationship, extract from Pakistan when you can, subvert it when you want.

Then you have the high-on-brainwashing Punjabis saying we iz one n shii trying to cope being leeched off like a golden goose, walking into a disaster in the future. Self-cuckery.

nope sorry i have seen this first hand people especially boomers like taliban , my brother we have had bangladeshi ttp members

 

[Ak01]

You can continue to burry your head but the primary issues remains that Pashtuns are defensive over Afghanistan, and many times the TTP due to ethnicity. So the shenanigans continue.

bring the facts, im not interested in anecdotal evidence.

The majority of Pashtun activism revolves around securing rights, justice and accountability in their areas, not an independant state... if a people has to ask for basic rights, theres probably a failure on your part...somewhere.

Views like yours are a cancer to Pakistan and are arguably more damaging than any outside threat, whether india, or israel, you are no better than seperatists.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

and are the mullahs only Pashtun...or?

This all actually sounds like a foundational Pakistan problem, not an ethnic one.

Scapegoat ethnic groups for central policy failures

Pashtuns had wahabism shoved down their throats, with the goal of turning them into an army against the soviets, what was going to happen to all the military aged men who were fed warrior propaganda to be used as pawns once the soviets were done?

Did you think they'd sit on their hands?

Why do some Pashtuns prefer to be a part of Afghanistan? Is this not as a result of our failures to also put their interests at heart? You dont see western pashtuns longing for Afghanistan, because their lives are better here.

Why pin OUR failures on one group? We can bury our head in the sand all we'd like, yes, there is significant work to be done by the pashtun community on their customs, attitudes, beliefs and alliances, but really, other than some obscure northern tribes who mind their own business, theres not a single group you cant say this about in Pakistan.

The reality is, the Govt MUST start taking the grievances of people seriously and do something about it. Most Pashtuns are and have been fiercely loyal to Pakistan, after all, it was the local tribes that pushed back the afghans, but dont make the mistake of thinking this will always be the case, after all, why would anyone want to be loyal to a state who couldnt care less about them?

It is an ethnic problem. Trying to frame it as religious is another Pak Nut coping mechanism.

The PTM and the secular Pashtun governments have been pushing the same goals without mullahs, because it is fundamentally ethnic.

Mullahs are certainly an issue but this is not a foundationally religious issue. And certainly mullahs exist everywhere.

But they can continue doing what they do tomorrow under a non-religious label.

 

[Ak01]

Well that's the difference. States like Turkey didn't try to cope by jumping to appeasement and constantly cuckolding themselves and accepted it. They got results.

I am certainly not a fan of maintaining a country whose interests is just perpetually sucking off a problematic group at everyone else's expense indefinitely.

If there was perpetual sucking off going on, the people would not be asking for basic rights... Sorry but this is a joke.

That state does not serve its peoples interests but instead drains them, long term it seeks to destroy their native lands via immigration from the same enemy handing them their dream of Loy Afghanistan.

Should I support a state when its destiny is to cuck its own loyal citizens?

The same Loy Afghan'ers defended the Durand line...

You have to be some jeet or something

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

The same Loy Afghan'ers defended the Durand line...

You have to be some jeet or something

Cool bro. I'm a Jeet because you can't cope with what I'm saying.

People like you probably also called all Bengalis Indian agents until 71 happened.

 

[Ak01]

It is an ethnic problem. Trying to frame it as religious is another Pak Nut coping mechanism.

Why does TTP/Sharia/Conservatism have a huge support base in Pakistan if it isnt a religious problem?

The PTM and the secular Pashtun governments have been pushing the same goals without mullahs, because it is fundamentally ethnic.

What goals?

Mullahs are certainly an issue but this is not a foundationally religious issue. And certainly mullahs exist everywhere.

But they can continue doing what they do tomorrow under a non-religious label.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

If there was perpetual sucking off going on, the people would not be asking for basic rights... Sorry but this is a joke.

"Basic rights" yes on the surface that's the claim. But if you believe PTM is merely a movement of rights then I have a golden bridge in Narnia to sell you.

Every group hides their problematic behaviour under rights. Half the PTM is in bed with the Taliban. They just want a scapegoat to deflect their ethnic fascism.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Why does TTP/Sharia/Conservatism have a huge support base in Pakistan if it isnt a religious problem?


What goals?

Just answer this for me, if Afghan hostilities, their terrorism, and violence, was at its roots merely religious, then why did secular communist governments persist in their policy?

Religion is just a veil of legitimacy to cover ethnic goals. Loy Afghanistan is not some religious project, it is ethnic. I don't even know why I'm debating this.

 

[Ak01]

Cool bro. I'm a Jeet because you can't cope with what I'm saying.

People like you probably also called all Bengalis Indian agents until 71 happened.

of course you're a jeet, i see Pakistan and Pakistanis, whether Pashtun, Sindhi, Punjabi, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim.

You see Punjab and you see problems.

Instead of realising the failures of the state are what have lead us to this situation, you think the solution is just get rid of X.

Get rid of Pashtuns, then what, Get rid of Baloch? Then Sindhi's? Then what...? In the end you're left with Punjab and Punjabis, who by no means are saints either.

https://minorityrights.org/resources/hatefull-places/

where will you send the Punjabis when you realise that hatered, honour killings, child marriages, extremeism etc are also acceptable to them too?

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

of course you're a jeet, i see Pakistan and Pakistanis, whether Pashtun, Sindhi, Punjabi, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim.

You see Punjab and you see problems.

Instead of realising the failures of the state are what have lead us to this situation, you think the solution is just get rid of X.

Get rid of Pashtuns, then what, Get rid of Baloch? Then Sindhi's? Then what...? In the end you're left with Punjab and Punjabis, who by no means are saints either.

https://minorityrights.org/resources/hatefull-places/

where will you send the Punjabis when you realise that hatered, honour killings, child marriages, extremeism etc are also acceptable to them too?

Just more cop outs. No one is talking about civil cultural issues, we are talking about structural political issues in the federation.

What is the point of maintaining a country that is constantly subverted for its interests because of the ethno lobbies of particular ethnic groups who blackmail it, who have a love-hate relationship with their terrorists and then shift that blame onto others, cant even confront a foreign state effectively because of said group's sympathy for it, and all at the same time one group has to tolerate sacrificing its own province's demographics and identity merely to accomodate a failed status quo?

In the end you have a failed state building a Loy Afghanistan fantasy in a round about way regardless that cant ever get its act right because its structurally flawed.

Give me a valid reason beyond some vague humanist nonesense. Something practical.

 

[SteppeWolff]

What is the point of maintaining a country that is constantly subverted for its interests because of the ethno lobbies of particular ethnic groups who blackmail it, who have a love-hate relationship with their terrorists and then shift that blame onto others, cant even confront a foreign state effectively because of said group's sympathy for it, and all at the same time one group has to tolerate sacrificing its own province's demographics and identity merely to accomodate a failed status quo?

Lobbies will always lobby for their interests. Be them feudals, industrialists, or others. It is the job of the state to navigate and secure its interests.

You cannot blame one entire ethnic group. Thats the recipe for a disaster.

Pashtuns themselves are tired of terrorism or they wont be picking up arms and fighting them. Today its in Bannu, before it was in FATA.

They have done more than anything YOU have ever done for Pakistan.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Lobbies will always lobby for their interests. Be them feudals, industrialists, or others. It is the job of the state to navigate and secure its interests.

You cannot blame one entire ethnic group. Thats the recipe for a disaster.

Pashtuns themselves are tired of terrorism or they wont be picking up arms and fighting them. Today its in Bannu, before it was in FATA.

They have done more than anything YOU have ever done for Pakistan.

Not when an entire demographic suppports them to blackmail or subvert the state all the time.

I'm honestly done, I see no valid raison d'etre for Pakistan it is a suicidal endeavour built on emotional indoctrination. Apart from defending against Hindu aggression it is a net negative for many. I don't want to sacrifice my own lands and identity to try and always appease an evidently problematic group just to sustain a permanently subverted/unstable nation that doesnt serve my people.