Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

Everything you are demanding was done during the PPP/ANP tenure, at great cost and sacrifice by the PPP/ANP politicians, ordinary civilians of KP and the police / paramilitary personnel. We all know what happened later and how all of them were betrayed , once again, in favor of the Taliban. When you behave like that repeatedly for 40 plus years, you lose the trust of the people and the province.

We still have people living in IDP camps that were originally populated by the Afghans because of very heavy handed military ops from 2009 to 2014. The promises made to them by the army of rebuilding and peace remain unfulfilled.

The attitude now in KP is those who created this mess, the Pakistan Army and ISI, can come and clean it up. Don't bother asking us for yet another sacrifice.

Let's end the lies, the people in those areas were ALWAYS like this, always silently supportive of pashtunist extremists and extremism

ANP, PTM look historically and you see the same bone headed ethnic extremism and chauvinism in support of Afghanistan


Who is suffering the most????
If KP and tribals are suffering the most became of the ethnic war being waged, it's up to them to be the primary driver for action

The idea they can just wash their hands is ridiculous when their areas are most effected
 
Well that model won't work, you build schools and T's will blow them up and locals will still support the T's, so we are going nowhere with all that. So many schools have been blown up with little to no protests or anger from the locals which means the locals are fully onboard with the school blowing rituals.

I agree to some extent what you are saying

But then kpk and Balochistan are Pakistani territory. They would remain Pakistani territory. The people living in those regions would continue to live there

So Pakistani state has no choice but to act like a state and finish this mess of terrorism one way or the other

Right now Pakistani policies are of cowardice, indifference and lack of spine. Noor wali is not in Pakistan. He is living comfortably in Afghanistan. Bashir zeb is not in Pakistan. He is living comfortably in Afghanistan. Allah nazar is comfortably living in iran (yeah the same iran which we want to save from american bombings). Pakistani state failed to kill them even after so many years. Pakistani state has failed to force its neighbours in abandoning their support for ttp and bla

This rona dhona about locals is good to some extent but in the end it is state of Pakistan that has failed to draw and act upon red lines. It is Pakistani state whose security and intelligence infrastructure that has failed and even worse failed to do some introspection in all these years. It is Pakistani state that for years tried to hide its incompetence and failure under the banner of shahadat. Locals have fought against ttp and bla too. You might not know them since you don't follow such news but it is a fact. State failed those locals too for years
 
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The Pakistani govt currently is a bunch of low life scum thieves.

Sara tubber chore hai!!

If an entity offers enough $$ to them, the Pakistani govt will personally plant a bomb in a Pakistani school.

Let's be serious here. These are drug addicted career criminals put in positions of power.
 
@Starlord

Just one of many examples of state failure and indifference

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Kpk and balochistan are full of such examples of indifference and incompetence
 
@Starlord

Just one of many examples of state failure and indifference

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Kpk and balochistan are full of such examples of indifference and incompetence

Part indifferrence and mostly incompetence.

The state is in the same state it was in 71 at least in terms of leadership.
They are too busy taking care of their own individual interests or they are so overwhelming with signals they have basically shut down and tried to focus on just one element of their job.
 
I agree to some extent shat you are saying

But then kpk and Balochistan are Pakistani territory. They would remain Pakistani territory. The people living in those regions would continue to live there

So Pakistani state has no choice but to act like a state and finish this mess of terrorism one way or the other

Right now Pakistani policies are of cowardice, indifference and lack of spine. Noor wali is not in Pakistan. He is living comfortably in Afghanistan. Bashir zeb is not in Pakistan. He is living comfortably in Afghanistan. Allah nazar is comfortably living in iran (yeah the same iran which we want to save from american bombings). Pakistani state failed to kill them even after so many years. Pakistani state has failed to force its neighbours in abandoning their support for ttp and bla

This rona dhona about locals is good to some extent but in the end it is state of Pakistan that has failed to draw and act upon red lines. It is Pakistani state whose security and intelligence infrastructure that has failed and even worse failed to do some introspection in all these years. It is Pakistani state that for years tried to hide its incompetence and failure under the banner of shahadat. Locals have fought against ttp and bla too. You might not know them since you don't follow such news but it is a fact. State failed those locals too for years
I am not denying anyone's Pakistaniyat here, nor I am advocating that KPK/Baluchistan should just separate from Pakistan, I am only saying that regular "Educating the Locals" won't change KPK/Baluchistan, because people will just blow the schools or any modern development out in the name of Ethnic encroachment and Anti-Islam or Anti-Pashtoon.

Lets take example of Gaza here, Gazan suffer the worse Genocide of our life time, and yet Gaza has the highest literacy rate in the region, Gaza before the war looks far far better than any city of KPK or Baluchistan, why? was it just the Govt? No its the people that makes the difference, Govt can only put trash cans out on the road its the people who decide whether you throw the Kachra in Trash bins or roads. KPK/Baluchistan both Tribal societies and has very high Appetite for Violence, its part of their culture and day to day lives, they never wants to change, so you can bet that any city of KPK or Baluchistan will never look like a modern city, the main reason is that the people don't think there is a problem, its people like you and me who live outside of these 2 states who sees the problem and talk about it because their actions affect the entire Pakistan.

Every major city has its issues, crimes and criminals including cities like NYC, heck even in Tampa we have Gangs that control their own territory for Drugs and Prostitutions, I have no problem with KPKians becoming criminals, fine go rob a bank or snatch a phone or sell drugs, problem is that KPK has hosted world top tier Terrorists, and there was a time when every major terrorists attack around the world find its roots in North Wazirstan, now that is the major problem. Govt can only try to build schools, roads and bridges but locals seems to have no issues when TTP blow it up, they clear the rubble and move on, just in past 2-3 years countless schools were blown up by TTP, they made video and brag about it, now haw many KPKians came out to protest ? have you even see 5 people who even on social media with large following doing any podcast against the TTP ? nope.

Now as for TTP/BLA leadership, you can kill them and we should but they will put another figure as head of these orgs, will it change anything? Nope nada. You can't just expect to take out Noor Wali and think TTP will collapse, Hakim ullah mehsud was killed, Mullah Fazal ullah and baitulla mehsood all were killed did TTP collapsed ? nope they regroup under new leadership and came out stronger and create new networks in KPK, why ? and how ? its because of the local support.
Think of it like this, Indian Muslims are been bitch slap by Hindu's every day, and yet we can't pay them to create a insurgency with effectiveness of 10% of TTP why? because the Indian Muslims as cucks as they are they don't want their children to just strap a explosive and blow themselves up, even in Gaza where there used to be suicide attacks they mourn their children, they fight the strongest army not by blowing up Israeli schools or massacring Children, you can't just pay someone to go ballistic on kids and civilians unless you are nuts and have a crazy appetite for violence, and this plague the KPKian and Baluchistan society for decades, they refused to change, they don't even ack there is a problem hence we never came even close to a solution, we can kill as many T's as we want but the women in Afghanistan/KPK will spread their legs and pop up 10 more kids who will be suicide bomber ready by 2040. So how do you deal with that situation? Will you go and start killing women? why no one ask the question how people in Tribal areas just reproduce and send their kids to madarsas and they don't care where their kids are, what are they doing ? who their friends are? I mean i grow up in Karachi and my Parents actually gives a shit about me and all my brothers, hence my parents will lost their shit if i didn't come home, or who my friends are and who i am spending my time with, now will we say that Parents in Karachi are different than KPK?

Bhai yes state has failed, sure... ISI has become pathetic, but problem is how are you gonna fight the insurgency with people like KPK and Baluchistan providing all kind of support to them? no just logistics but manpower too? weapons are build in homes, locals won't help you, they help T's more. Terrain is brutal, people refused to acknowledge or change, you have American forces (worlds best) next door in Afghanistan, did they change anything? CIA/MI5 and other world best Intelligence agencies work overnight, with unlimited funds, did they turn Afghan's into civilized human beings? they are still chopping people heads off and beating women for going to school, so that idea that us killing more T's and taking out their leaders will fix KPK/Baluchistan is flawed logic, the best we can have is few years of peace followed by few years of turmoil, it gonna be a cycle of peace time vs the violence, because I don't see the people of KPK suddenly waking up and realizing that they have a issue, just you wait here and you see how quickly few people from the ethnic group will come and attack me for saying that locals are main cause of insurgency, they will blame Govt, ISI, Army and policies of 1990's or Afghan jihad , thanos but won't want to look forward and ask what can we do? and this is just a forum, I am talking about the on ground change, there are many example around the world where people protest and bring change, poverty ridden societies has change their destiny (China) but nowhere when Govt ignore a local area they resort to suicide bombing and chopping heads off, this is a Pakistan and mostly KPK/Baluchistan specific phenomenon and will remain so.

Now to the solution : Yeah take out the leaders of TTP/BLA, and kill as many as you can, new leadership you can try to negotiate which won't work, hence we can just keep killing their foot soldiers and local commanders but there won't be any perpetual peace in KPK/Baluchistan, the region will remain a hot and cold, a high-low intensity insurgency hotbed.
 
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@Starlord

Just one of many examples of state failure and indifference

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Kpk and balochistan are full of such examples of indifference and incompetence

KPK state is a joke, they are part of them problem I was talking about, issue is that unlike other states like Sindh and Punjab, KPK and Baluchistan didn't open itself to other ethnic groups, they are racists and very prejudice against who they consider outsiders, when you have a brain rot for decades with lots of unaccounted Guns, and culture that glamorize violence, with sprinkles of Islamic radicalization that is what you get.

The local tribes can make peace with TTP, but for how long? Remember in SWAT and Malakand the locals made peace and let TTP erect check-posts, once powerful enough they were hanging the local tribal leaders in Khooni chowks without heads. Tribal's think if Govt ignore us, its best to go and make a deal with Terrorists, they won't attack us but they will continue their activities against other Tribes, see the problem with KPKians here? its very obvious!!! now TTP only made this deal because they won't have enough manpower as off now, and they will recruit more from the same tribe, and as soon as the TTP is strong enough you will see the Tribal leaders hanged with their headless bodies. This is the exact problem I have been talking about, you are mad at govt so best option you come up with is to go a World renounce Terrorists organization who behead people and kill babies, Wah re Tribal areas ki awam Wah!!! Sadqay Jaon esi souch pe.
 
Part indifferrence and mostly incompetence.

The state is in the same state it was in 71 at least in terms of leadership.
They are too busy taking care of their own individual interests or they are so overwhelming with signals they have basically shut down and tried to focus on just one element of their job.
The State decides the party on power in the Frontier (and one that should per election results) has been in power in the center as well, is an enemy. And carried out a crackdown of such intensity that it obliterated any hope for reapproachment.
That is the fundamental problem.
That's even before the fact that the state is busy fucking the constitution in its ass.
Right now they are talking about raising the voting age to 25, disenfracnhsing 25% of all voters.
Bombing the shyt out of Afghanistan (which by the way, I fully support as a policy, should be done round the clock) is only going to get you a few minths of peace.
 
The local tribes can make peace with TTP, but for how long? Remember in SWAT and Malakand the locals made peace and let TTP erect check-posts, once powerful enough they were hanging the local tribal leaders in Khooni chowks without heads.
To be honest I no longer care what they choose to do.

I hope other provinces send back all the KPK-origin residents and politicians to KPK and let them make all the deals they want with the Taliban.

Punjab should shut its borders and send their people back and make sure the spill over doesn't reach their province. I hope same can be done for Hazara.

The rest of the country is suffering in constant crisis due to Pashtuns love affair with terrorism and violence, on top of that everywhere they settle they claim it is their land.
 
KPK state is a joke, they are part of them problem I was talking about, issue is that unlike other states like Sindh and Punjab, KPK and Baluchistan didn't open itself to other ethnic groups, they are racists and very prejudice against who they consider outsiders,

😂😂😂😂😂...

People fron Punjab or sindh don't find it suitable for them to resettle in KP. How is it KPs fault ?

When someone from KPK goes to Punjab or Sindh, he learn atleast urdu so that he can communicate with them. Will people from Punjab or sindh bother to learn pashto/hindko to easily adjust themselves in KPK lands ?

Hindko is the second most spoken language in peshawar city (the capital). In nowshera, Punjabi/urdu is the second most spoken language. In hazara region (haripur, abbotabad, mansehra etc) Hindko is the most spoken language. Almost every person in KP can speak enough urdu necessary to communicate. We are open bro. But you dont find enough economic activity in KP to shift here. Only 81% of KPK population is pashto speaker. Did we expel the remaining 19% ? Did we expel hindko speakers ? Did you hear about any anti-hindko movements in KPK ?

I am open to learn.
 
😂😂😂😂😂...

People fron Punjab or sindh don't find it suitable for them to resettle in KP. How is it KPs fault ?

When someone from KPK goes to Punjab or Sindh, he learn atleast urdu so that he can communicate with them. Will people from Punjab or sindh bother to learn pashto to easily adjust themselves in KPK lands ?

Hindko is the second most spoken language in peshawar city. In nowshera, Punjabi is the second most spoken language. In hazara region (haripur, abbotabad, mansehra etc) Hindko is the most spoken language. Only 81% of KPK population is pashto speaker. Did we expel the hinko speakers ? Did you hear about any anti-hindko movements in KPK ?

I am open to learn.

That's the whole point of urdu as the national language, you don't have to learn Punjabi or Sindhi or anything as long as you learn Urdu
 
That's the whole point of urdu as the national language, you don't have to learn Punjabi or Sindhi or anything as long as you learn Urdu

You just skip the whole response and focused on one line.

1.. People of KP have nothing against non-pashto speakers. 19% of its own population is not pashtoon yet you dont see any pashtoon-hindko issues.

2.. almost every one in KP can speak urdu. This shows that we are open to communicate. We are open to have you and be there in your lands as well. This doesn't show racist attitude.

3. People from KP feel confident enough on themselves that they can do something (mostly business) in Punjab or sindh. So they shift. If a person from Punjab doesn't feel the same about KP. How can you blame people of KP for that. How does this mean people of KP are racists?

4. Millions of tourists from Punjab and sindh visits KPK every year. How many of them were returned because they spoke different language than pashto ? How many were killed for not being pashtoon ?

KPK is not Baluchistan where terrorists will kill you only based on your ethnicity.
 
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I hope other provinces send back all the KPK-origin residents and politicians to KPK and let them make all the deals they want with the Taliban.

Punjab should shut its borders and send their people back and make sure the spill over doesn't reach their province. I hope same can be done for Hazara

@Starlord now who is being racist ?

By the way do you agree with him ?
 
😂😂😂😂😂...

People fron Punjab or sindh don't find it suitable for them to resettle in KP. How is it KPs fault ?

When someone from KPK goes to Punjab or Sindh, he learn atleast urdu so that he can communicate with them. Will people from Punjab or sindh bother to learn pashto/hindko to easily adjust themselves in KPK lands ?

Hindko is the second most spoken language in peshawar city (the capital). In nowshera, Punjabi/urdu is the second most spoken language. In hazara region (haripur, abbotabad, mansehra etc) Hindko is the most spoken language. Almost every person in KP can speak enough urdu necessary to communicate. We are open bro. But you dont find enough economic activity in KP to shift here. Only 81% of KPK population is pashto speaker. Did we expel the remaining 19% ? Did we expel hindko speakers ? Did you hear about any anti-hindko movements in KPK ?

I am open to learn.
Resettlement of civilians is one part, pushtoons are open to people visiting the places, but not resettlement of other ethnic groups, I learn this from people who live in KPK. KPK has a lot to offer for a lot of people who would love to move but they can't given the locals, and now the violence, people from other ethnic groups will be rat out in a heart beat, we saw that in Karachi in several areas, where pushtoons targeted non Pushtoon after seeing their CNIC cards, if they are like that in Karachi one can imagine in their own strongholds.

Secondly isn't it sad that KPK has nothing to offer and did nothing besides bringing destruction and fame (for wrong reasons) to Pakistan? KPK could've been something but all we got is world top tier Terrorists often pop up there, NW and SW and other Agencies come to lime light for being the world most dangerous places, now I know you will blame the ISI or Wardi or Pakistan's policies so don't bother.
 

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