Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[Oscar]

Seeking stability in a neighboring country means investment, trade, soft power, building institutions, discussing and resolving disputes via compromise. Mutual peaceful progress.

Seeking stability in a neighboring country does not mean stroking civil war via proxies, which has been Pakistani policy from 1979 to 2021.

The damage has been done.

So what was the policy prior to 1979 or did Afghans not exist prior to that?
Were they all distributing flowers and kabuli pulao at the border before that?

 

[Watandar]

So what was the policy prior to 1979 or did Afghans not exist prior to that?
Were they all distributing flowers and kabuli pulao at the border before that?

There were boundary disputes, tension and some border clashes. There was nothing that justified imposing 50 years of war on a neighboring country and ruining your own in the process.

Pakistan could have been a leader, a peacemaker, a big brother to Afghanistan but understanding that is beyond the limited intellect of GHQ, for whom every problem only has a shooting solution.

Until civilians are put in charge of Afghan policy, those who understand Pakistan's needs alongwith the Afghan landscape and mindset, there isn't going to be any improvement in the situation. These jahil jernails will just continue to create a bigger and bigger mess.

 

[hasssanali8998]

There were boundary disputes, tension and some border clashes.

o allah ke bande they literally launched a war on us after independence

50 years

again
10 years against soviet then we pretty much got kicked out after taliban gained power and zia died
then 911 happened and us fought and our jernails thought it would be wise to support these namak haramis
should have completely ended them with us support but we cant change the past so now lets actully do somethign about the growing threat
and yes the threat is real its not just "disputes, tension and some border clashes."

 

[Oscar]

There were boundary disputes, tension and some border clashes. There was nothing that justified imposing 50 years of war on a neighboring country and ruining your own in the process.

Pakistan could have been a leader, a peacemaker, a big brother to Afghanistan but understanding that is beyond the limited intellect of GHQ, for whom every problem only has a shooting solution.

Until civilians are put in charge of Afghan policy, those who understand Pakistan's needs alongwith the Afghan landscape and mindset, there isn't going to be any improvement in the situation. These jahil jernails will just continue to create a bigger and bigger mess.

That is a rather "nothing important" dismissal.
Let me give you some more fresher memory unless you cannot see beyond your ethnic lenses regardless of the bumbling of GHQ:

Afghanistan was the only country on Earth to vote against Pakistan's UN admission in 1947. Within three years, Kabul was funding armed lashkars crossing the Durand Line, sheltering Pakistani dissidents, orchestrating the Bajaur invasions of 1960 and 1961, and running Radio Kabul as a propaganda arm against Pakistan's territorial integrity and Afghan PM Daoud had Pakistani consulates physically stormed in 1955.

It's curious how those who accuse GHQ of viewing every problem through a single ideological lens sometimes apply a remarkably similar filter in the opposite direction where Afghan state conduct gets contextualized and humanized while Pakistani state conduct gets condemned in absolute terms.

A consistent standard of accountability would apply equally to both governments, regardless of where one's deeper cultural sympathies happen to lie.

Now did Pakistan's military establishment take all of the above and respond with a series of decisions so strategically incoherent, so recklessly shortsighted, and so ultimately destructive to Pakistani society itself, that it vindicates almost every criticism leveled at them? Absolutely. No argument there. The blowback Pakistan lives with today is largely self-inflicted.

But, lets not brown nose the Afghans to where the complexion starts getting shades..

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

If it wasn't clear to people before, we've got slimy Afghandu Yahuds in our ranks pretending to be one of us

 

[pakistanitarzan]

There were boundary disputes, tension and some border clashes. There was nothing that justified imposing 50 years of war on a neighboring country and ruining your own in the process.

Pakistan could have been a leader, a peacemaker, a big brother to Afghanistan but understanding that is beyond the limited intellect of GHQ, for whom every problem only has a shooting solution.

Until civilians are put in charge of Afghan policy, those who understand Pakistan's needs alongwith the Afghan landscape and mindset, there isn't going to be any improvement in the situation. These jahil jernails will just continue to create a bigger and bigger mess.

The biggest issue we have with TTA is that they will not stop giving refuge to the TTP. Reason being is that they dont want TTP to turn against TTA. During US invasion, the Pak elite use to think TTA were our allies and that once the US leaves the region they would help us against the TTP but when the US left, they started providing refuge to TTP. Almost that it sounds like US being there was a blessing for Pakistan, in some ways. I use to think that there is good taliban and bad taliban. Agreed that our elite has done their fair share of messups throughout history but TTA providing refuge to TTP and not taking any action is putting them in same category as khwararij. I saw an interview of Khwaja Asif and he said that the TTA had agreed to take a strong stance against TTP in the meeting they had in Turkey but during the meeting the TTA guy had a phone call (from India) and they reverted on their stance because they feel that India centric policy which is Balkanization of Pakistan is better than being friendly neighbor and going after rogue elements. Its very hard to talk to such people.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

The biggest issue we have with TTA is that they will not stop giving refuge to the TTP. Reason being is that they dont want TTP to turn against TTA. During US invasion, the Pak elite use to think TTA were our allies and that once the US leaves the region they would help us against the TTP but when the US left, they started providing refuge to TTP. Almost that it sounds like US being there was a blessing for Pakistan, in some ways. I use to think that there is good taliban and bad taliban. Agreed that our elite has done their fair share of messups throughout history but TTA providing refuge to TTP and not taking any action is putting them in same category as khwararij. I saw an interview of Khwaja Asif and he said that the TTA had agreed to take a strong stance against TTP in the meeting they had in Turkey but during the meeting the TTA guy had a phone call (from India) and they reverted on their stance because they feel that India centric policy which is Balkanization of Pakistan is better than being friendly neighbor and going after rogue elements. Its very hard to talk to such people.

That's not the actual reason that's just the excuse

The reason is because Afghanistan is an expansionist power driven by Pashtun nationalism and claims KPK and Balochistan

 

[pakistanitarzan]

That's not the actual reason that's just the excuse

The reason is because Afghanistan is an expansionist power driven by Pashtun nationalism and claims KPK and Balochistan

Yes I know all about the Durand line claim but there is a huge power dynamic over there and there always have been and therefore TTA thinks its better to ally TTP so they can protect their own throne but the pashtun factor also does play a role in that.

 

[Oscar]

If it wasn't clear to people before, we've got slimy Afghandu Yahuds in our ranks pretending to be one of us

No, its basic ethnic loyalty surfaced by the leader of their political ideals.
No differrent than Jaag PUnjabi Jaag or Sindudesh ideals with PPP.

Pakistan in its existence for a variety of reasons has never been able to cultivate loyalty to the state and an aspiring ideal versus ethnic or religious divides.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

No, its basic ethnic loyalty surfaced by the leader of their political ideals.
No differrent than Jaag PUnjabi Jaag or Sindudesh ideals with PPP.

Pakistan in its existence for a variety of reasons has never been able to cultivate loyalty to the state and an aspiring ideal versus ethnic or religious divides.

Pakistan has no nation building ideology when I say this either the lesser intellectually gifted get upset and think im attacking Pakistan itself

But you cant use religion as a weapon and expect it to not backfire, the question is what coherent nation building ideology can it adopt that makes sense long-term?

Plus separatists in Pakistan have always been coddled it doesnt help the majority community is weak and passive

 

[Distant_Observer]

The biggest issue we have with TTA is that they will not stop giving refuge to the TTP. Reason being is that they dont want TTP to turn against TTA. During US invasion, the Pak elite use to think TTA were our allies and that once the US leaves the region they would help us against the TTP but when the US left, they started providing refuge to TTP. Almost that it sounds like US being there was a blessing for Pakistan, in some ways. I use to think that there is good taliban and bad taliban. Agreed that our elite has done their fair share of messups throughout history but TTA providing refuge to TTP and not taking any action is putting them in same category as khwararij. I saw an interview of Khwaja Asif and he said that the TTA had agreed to take a strong stance against TTP in the meeting they had in Turkey but during the meeting the TTA guy had a phone call (from India) and they reverted on their stance because they feel that India centric policy which is Balkanization of Pakistan is better than being friendly neighbor and going after rogue elements. Its very hard to talk to such people.

TTA and TTP is the same organism.

They gave it the name of TTP to defame Pakistan and cosplay as a local cause. taliban fund and lead all activities including recruitment of Pakistanis or afghans larping as Pakistanis. The head of the hydra is the taliban.

They are infactuated with Iran and have copied their model. They see them as their racial and cultural superior. Ayatollah cleric system is mimicked and the way they handled their proxies in Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, Iraq and Lebanon.