Operation Marg Bar Sarmachar: Pakistan strikes Back

[gusto]

it is the first time Pakistan recall its envoy from Iran, we had ups and downs in relations in the past, matter now, seems more serious than one think.

if IRG kept govt blind, we will see an envoy visiting, but i don't think it works out like this in Iran. only time will tell.

as things are unfolding, it seems i was wrong in giving above statement.

matter isn't serious it is rather an opportunity fall from somewhere as a blessing.

a stupid move by IRGC and it is availed.

 

[Gripen9]

It means J-10s were in Khi for a few days...We could identify the different engine sounds. We used to hear Mirages/JFTs ...but those birds have different engine sound .

Could be. No2 Sqn is JF17s. No15 is J-10s. They could have sortied out of Rafiqui if need be and Aerial Refueled.

 

[altafahmed]

Well, If Pakistan doesn't handle these terrorist near the border than Iran has to do what it has to do. ISI has funny ways of working and I absolutely dont trust the Pak military intelligence to take a principled stance on this situation which is rational.

ISI makes a lot of out of the budget money by controlling these barbarian terrorists and activating them on behalf of the highest bidders. There is no morality in this and its utterly disgusting to tell the truth.

So Iran cannot look past this anymore. They shud make it clear to the Pakistani authorities to not play these games. So if they dont take this under control, Iran should do it on their own .

Who is supporting BLA and BNF in Iran?

 

[Xerxes22]

Thats utter non sense from the iranians to hide their utter incompetence.
It was Pakistan who captured n handed rigi to iran. While u persians are not only hosting raw but also bla/bra terrorists in ur terrority.
We captured raw commander comming from iran into Pakistan.

Iran in reality is lots of got air n hence operate through their terror net works around the region.
So stick with flogging iraq, sham, Lebanon....but Pakistan is way above ur capabilities.....

We shall see about capabilities.

 

[Reichmarshal]

We shall see about capabilities.

See u will along with ur partner in terrorism india

 

[Windjammer]

Pakistan boasts superior military hardware from both the West and China in comparison to Iran. In the event of a war between Pakistan and Iran, the U.S. is likely to offer full support to Pakistan, similar to its stance in the 1971 India-Pakistan war.

Stop plucking out of thin air.
If US had military supported Pakistan in 1971, then there was no need for Pakistan to field Jordanian F-104s and Saudi F-5s.
In contrast all the Russian military hardware destined for Egypt was convinently directed towards Delhi.
Pakistanis have learned the hard way that Americans are always there, when they need us.

 

[gusto]

Something big is brewing up, bigger than the region itself...try linking US statements regarding Iran....shipping getting attacked in waters around Iran and its proxies, Israel already pissed off by Iran equipped or pro Iran proxies, then something happens and Iran is coaxed into reacting like it did against Iraq, against shipping etc....and then US trying to make up a case of Iran being thoroughly irresponsible....i personally think there is definitely much more than meets the eye.

as you suspect ...
this regional war and i suppose it will be regional as it will grasp a hand full of countries this time. if it is imposed in current global economic situation is going to collapse several economies. even US is not currently in a position to take things on like this. or may be they will bring some benefits out, they won't be sufficient with the magnitude of expense it will cost.

so whatever they plan this time it will fall on their face. but if Zionists are pushing them and they are falling for it then best of luck to everyone. let's enjoy the backseat with a pack of popcorns.

big question is: where do we stand, what will be our stance, if something really is brewing up?

is it again going to be a "stone age threat" and we will be accommodating westerners conducting from the soil falling for a handful of F-16s?

we will be trying so hard to help survive our economy which already is barely breathing. it will be a total disaster.

irony is we will be selling cheap with the expected govt that is being orchestrated into the system next month (sorry for bringing in politics).

 

[gusto]

Sir ji...Salam o alleykum ...one masoomana Question....why J10s were sent with full teethes and talons ...

every single equipment involved of a fighter aircraft doing their part in a hostile land gets a handful of very precious information.

 

[Mobius]

This whole episode has been very unfortunate. Although, I'm glad that Pakistan finally retaliated, one must think what the hell was going tthrough the mind of the Iranians to think they could attack the sovereignty of Pakistan. Truly Bizarre.

That said, deescalation MUST be the priority for both sides. Enemies of Palestine and their allies are salivating at the thought of a war that will damage the only Muslim nuclear power. What a grotesque lot these Rabid Zionist dogs are.

On a final note, the donkeys in Parliament & GHQ need to wake from their slumber and be pro-active on the world stage. It's a dangerous time for Pakistan so the country should be on alert.

 

[suryakiran]

It is Iran's interest that it backs down. Won't end well for them. My reasoning is as follows:

a. Saudi and UAE will fund American weapons to Pakistan. Israel will have no problem for this.
b. Pak-Iran war will result in TTP getting bolder and carrying out incursions into KP.
c. India will also join in for the Pakistan Azaad Kashmir region, trying to link to Afghanistan, Wakhan corridor.

In all of the above, Pakistan will get overwhelmed and will want to exert its strength and stop the incursions on all 3 sides. So what happens?

a. Nuke India? We nuke back. Not acceptable.
b. Nuke Afghanistan? To what end? Afghanistan will try to destablise it further.
c. Nuke Iran? Best case scenario. Americans, Saudis, UAE and Israel will say, tsk tsk and end o fmatter. Story line will be that, Iran was aggressor and Pakistan was defending. Will send message to India, don't cross IB. Will cement its place in the Muslim world and will be a true balancer to Turkey with backing from UAE and Saudi.

So, in all this Iran will be the end loser. I don't see Iran wanting to do anything beyond what its done.

 

[GriffinsRule]

To that end @Windjammer @Trailer23 @GriffinsRule anyone of you fine gents could do a breakdown of aircraft and load out used. Would be great and add some depth to the thread.

I think outside of SOW, most likely in the form of REKs (mark-81 250lbs version due to its longer range and less collateral dmg) from JF-17s, unmanned drones and long range rockets were used, perhaps NASR or something similar like FATAH we just tested. Employing multiple systems, similar to them in response is not just to match their actions but also a good chance to employ these newly inducted systems and see the SOPs in action and adjust where needed. Also indicates that both AF and Army systems were used in response.

ISPR statement also mentioned loitering munitions which would have been employed by drones of course. It is a bit strange to use these in this instance as Pakistanis knew the static targets they were going to hit, and in early morning hours. I think this is signaling to Afghanistan and India as well that we have this capability. Not mentioning air assets like JF-17s also allows to cool the temperatures diplomatically and give Iranians a chance to save face.

In most likelihood we intruded into their airspace (my guess) but it's not like those areas are constantly monitored for air activity or have active AD.

I think after we gather our thoughts a good thread would be about the fallout of this buffoonery from Iran and how it will for certain change how the warming Pakistan-Iran relationship will be set back. It's pros and cons should be worth discussion.

 

[Kambojaric]

Question is does the government of Iran even have control over IRGC? Can their government signaling even be taken seriously when we are dealing with a completely autonomous organization?

I read this article more than a decade back. From an Iranian origin political scientist who argued that the IRGC was slowly but surely taking over more and more control of the Iranian state apparatus. This would have consequences on Iranian foreign policy as unlike the army which has a tradtional (or "classical" as he puts it) doctrine, the IRGC is "revolutionary" in its core. The fact that Iran has been taking impulsive/non-traditional actions in recent years can probably be attributed to this growing power of the IRGC. With little accounability and civilian control, it functions as a state within the state.

Of course I take the Iranian diasporas opinions on the Islamic Republic with a pinch of salt as their is much baggage in that relationship. However in this case I think the irrationality of Irans recent actions suggest this theory holds some ground. No rational state which is surrounded by enemies on all sides, escalates tensions with another neutral state.

Eternal Rivals? The Artesh and the IRGC - Middle East Institute

www.mei.edu

As per Irans own intelligence, the source of the Kerman attack can be attributed to the Taliban in Afghanistan. Seemingly unable to take any significant action on that front, the IRGC it seems came up with the face saving idea of striking Pakistan when it was in the middle of a political and economic crises. The plan has totally back fired.

Iran Reveals Afghan Origin of Islamic State Kerman Attack; Retaliation Options Limited

One of the suicide bombers trained in Afghanistan’s Badakhshan province, Iran’s intelligence ministry said Thursday, marking first time Tehran identified its neighbor as a source of January 3 attack

www.voanews.com

 

[Reichmarshal]

Iran since the iran Iraq war had created a myth that its become so strong n powerful that not even the u.s dares yo attack it even though it been running proxie wars throughout the region with support of its terror networks n groups in the guise of religion n have projected it self as the defender of the faith n the faithful....
while in reality they are persians first n foremost n every thing else later.

Now these strikes have destroyed that myth. And I am afraid that this is the beginning of worst things to come for iran. As now we might see strikes from isreal , u.s n other neighbors now

 

[Bilal]

I read this article more than a decade back. From an Iranian origin political scientist who argued that the IRGC was slowly but surely taking over more and more control of the Iranian state apparatus. This would have consequences on Iranian foreign policy as unlike the army which has a tradtional (or "classical" as he puts it) doctrine, the IRGC is "revolutionary" in its core. The fact that Iran has been taking impulsive/non-traditional actions in recent years can probably be attributed to this growing power of the IRGC. With little accounability and civilian control, it functions as a state within the state.

Of course I take the Iranian diasporas opinions on the Islamic Republic with a pinch of salt as their is much baggage in that relationship. However in this case I think the irrationality of Irans recent actions suggest this theory holds some ground. No rational state which is surrounded by enemies on all sides, escalates tensions with another neutral state.

Eternal Rivals? The Artesh and the IRGC - Middle East Institute

www.mei.edu

As per Irans own intelligence, the source of the Kerman attack can be attributed to the Taliban in Afghanistan. Seemingly unable to take any significant action on that front, the IRGC it seems came up with the face saving idea of striking Pakistan when it was in the middle of a political and economic crises. The plan has totally back fired.

Iran Reveals Afghan Origin of Islamic State Kerman Attack; Retaliation Options Limited

One of the suicide bombers trained in Afghanistan’s Badakhshan province, Iran’s intelligence ministry said Thursday, marking first time Tehran identified its neighbor as a source of January 3 attack

www.voanews.com

If IRGC were in full control of the state the situation would still be more predictable. What I meant was at the moment there are two parallel entities there. The conventional state apparatus and IRGC.

You talk and negotiate with the established state institutions but what’s the guarantee that internally IRGC will comply to whatever has been agreed by those institutions since it’s completely independent.

I pointed the lack of attack on Afghanistan multiple times earlier. Imagine they claimed to attack IS”K”P which is based in Afghanistan, all the way in northern Syria.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

No sir, from what I learned, it were Minhasians, Cobras and Falcons.

No EW or AEWACs?