PA MLRS, Self Propelled and towed artillery [BM-11, Fatah-I GMLRS, Fatah-II] - News, Updates & Discussions

[iblini]

Apni prototype hyper-duper te twadi s#it.

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We always wanted to lay low, kept quite, downplay the config, not marketing our weapon systems like the west, never bother to make some fancy advertisement like the western companies, imagined the havoc it brought upon the Indian on the loc, other countries would have shout out to the world and make sure everyone hears about its performance, but not a word from our company since 7. May.
A big sigh, when you are quite, ***** and godi medias spreading shit everywhere.

 

[Path-Finder]

We always wanted to lay low, kept quite, downplay the config, not marketing our weapon systems like the west, never bother to make some fancy advertisement like the western companies, imagined the havoc it brought upon the Indian on the loc, other countries would have shout out to the world and make sure everyone hears about its performance, but not a word from our company since 7. May.
A big sigh, when you are quite, ***** and godi medias spreading shit everywhere.

SH15 performed in the heat of the battle, that's what's expected and it delivered. While a prototype that appears to take design cues from a mix bag or either of South African Denel T5.
But SH15 is Junk

 

[Lion]

@Panzerkiel how good SH-15 performed saw it used extensively.

PK already answered - but just to rub it in further, the amount of ordinance PA fired into India during those 5 days, I can assure you, is the heaviest shelling India has seen since an all out conflict last happened between the two sides, this much is clear even from open source videos and imagery, and then there’s all the stuff people don’t know about.

Any news about the M-109 tracked artillery during recent conflict??

As PK mentioned, they’re with the armor in Punjab and Sindh, were not used, they serve a different role in the PA. Everything else was definitely firing though.

Tank chassis's are terrible for things such as Self propelled artillery.

As long as the chassis is purpose made, not true, handles it just fine.

What did the Indian used arty/mrls? How did they performed?

Funnily enough you could see the disparity of force on both sides live, there was a livestream setup in Srinagar during the first couple of days and you could hear the insane amounts of artillery, mortars, RAPs and just about Every other ordinance the PA could find being tossed into India, the return fire was there but very minimal, mainly towed arty and mortars. PA took Indias claim of Pakistan only having enough artillery ammunition for a one week conflict seriously and sent down a months worth of ordinance in a day.

 

[Lion]

What I can say with surety is that neither it employed full capabilities system wise. Nor they attempted full saturation.

You can clearly see limited numbers of launchers. Each firing limited number of salvos (3 per launcher vs loading of 8).

Even more limited than people think on the missile side, PA barely used 3 Fatah systems during the entire thing.

@farooqbhai @Bilal @Quwa @Goenitz
What could be those long range conventional missiles that @Panzerkiel is talking about other than. Babur CM, specifically In PAs inventory?.
The way he said it, PAF has some really long sticks too.

The whole Fatah series, of which only half is unveiled. Several versions of Babur. You never reveal all your cards.

Do you know how far were we from using nukes in this conflict?
And how much depth Pakistan has with regards to ammo/supplies/money if another such misadventure comes from hindutva?

Not close to nukes at all. For the first time since both countries got nukes, Pakistan is in a position where it feels fully confident in being able to taken on India conventionally in a skirmish or contained war. All-out war grows less likely by the day as economic factors become more important to both countries, what can be expected are smaller skirmishes, in all three theaters, this is where the enemies numerical advantage is partially eliminated and where better planning, training and tech comes into play, that is something the Pakistani armed forces can do pretty well - and don’t worry about the ammunition stockpiles, do you think the PA would be firing that much ordinance if they had a shortage?

 

[Lion]

they have K9, but haven't seen it in used.

K9 and M109 are in different roles in both forces, not really used for strikes like these. Hence the absence.

 

[Lion]

I might want to say... Even more.

Take one look at the shelling that took place on Indian posts along the LoC and this will make sense. Got to watch it live. You guys saw that viral voice note of Havildar saying he’s tearing a certain something apart for the Indians?…yeah.

 

[Lion]

I mean can't ISPR pay for Chinese Mizar Vision Imagery of all confirmed hits

I’ve gone through nearly 200 videos and photos of impacts, interceptions, and just generally missiles and explosions on the Indian side.

1. What I’ve been able to gleam is that over half the things they were calling missiles strikes were RAP artillery and MLRS, a lot of their border posts were hit, there was a bunch of good shelling on their brigade HQs and some other mil installations, and generally the artillery fire from the Pakistani side was very effective.

2. Moving onto Fatah series, now this is just one persons observations, but I do not believe the Fatah series hit most of their intended targets. For one we didn’t use many. 3 TELs, 4 at most, and at least one of them not even fully. There were definitely some interceptions, at least 2 are visually confirmed, but the Indian claims of intercepting “most or all” are BS. Most of the missiles were neither intercepted nor hit their target, instead landed anywhere from a few hundred meters to several kilometers from their targets. Whether this is user error, jamming, or some other issue, PA knows, and they will rectify it, it’s good real world data to work off. There were at least a couple of good Fatah hits.

3. Drones? Pakistan used very few, and the few it did performed very poorly. Contrary to Indian claims that Pakistan was sending hundreds of drones every day and night, most of the time dumb Indian AAA gunners were firing for hours at Lights in the mountains (with blackouts it’s literally pitch black there, you can’t tell where the mountain ends and the sky starts, a light in the mountain across the loc looks like a drone in the sky), tracers, Recce Quadcopters and Illumination shells.

4. Lastly, CM400, 3 or 4 were launched, this is contentious, i personally do not believe any of them hit their target, one landed in Kashmir and the two aimed at the S400s missed/were intercepted. I’d be more than happy to be proven wrong on this by solid evidence of damaged S400 radars coming out, but as it stands, I think the S400s narrowly escaped after being found and targeted (which is also what the PAF officially said).

Apart from this, no major missile systems are reported to be used by Pakistan (F2, Babur etc were not employed, nor were they needed, you save that stuff for higher escalation due to low numbers).

 

[Lion]

Except India only fired 15 brahmos..total. All targets combined. 12 per target means 100 plus! I wonder if one can split in 7?

Combining Brahmos, SCALP and Rampage the number is easily in excess of 30-40, I can personally confirm 2 were aimed at Nur Khan and 3+ at Murid.

The IAF claims it targeted 12 bases. There were hits on 7 of them, of which 5 did any notable damage (Runway crater at sargodha fixed in 2 days, RYK is a civilian airbase so it doesn’t count).

That’s 6 successful hits on bases (1 at Nur khan, 1 at bholari, 1 at Shahbaz, 2 at murid, 1 at sukkur, or 8 including Sargodha and RYK).

Even if I take 8 as the number, 70-80% missed or were intercepted. Something will always get through, and the PAF AD definitely had notable gaps that need to be plugged ASAP. Despite that, is an 80% interception ratio a successful strike? I don’t think so.

 

[RandomThoughts7]

Combining Brahmos, SCALP and Rampage the number is easily in excess of 30-40, I can personally confirm 2 were aimed at Nur Khan and 3+ at Murid.

The IAF claims it targeted 12 bases. There were hits on 7 of them, of which 5 did any notable damage (Runway crater at sargodha fixed in 2 days, RYK is a civilian airbase so it doesn’t count).

That’s 6 successful hits on bases (1 at Nur khan, 1 at bholari, 1 at Shahbaz, 2 at murid, 1 at sukkur, or 8 including Sargodha and RYK).

Even if I take 8 as the number, 70-80% missed or were intercepted. Something will always get through, and the PAF AD definitely had notable gaps that need to be plugged ASAP. Despite that, is an 80% interception ratio a successful strike? I don’t think so.

Hi, Israel finally admitted that a number of its bases were hit and by day 7 of the conflict 16% of Iranian missiles got through. What is the moral of the story? Even with having the most layered, dense, overlapping and sophisticated missile interception capacity, some things will still get through...

I think Pakistan did an okay job intercepting what was thrown at them, but I am sure they will need to improve going forward. In addition, other than Fatah 1, and that in limited use, Pakistan did not lob anything else at India.

However, Pakistan does need to urgently build or get transfer of technology for a supersonic/hypersonic cruise missile.

Six Iranian missiles hit IDF bases in June 2025 | The Jerusalem Post

Western sources told the Post that the impact and damage by these hits was actually less than the impact and damage caused in October 2024.

www.jpost.com

"Next, the report said that if in the early days of the war only 2% of Iranian missiles were breaching Israel's missile defense shield, that by day seven that number had jumped to 16%."

 

[Toxic]

PK already answered - but just to rub it in further, the amount of ordinance PA fired into India during those 5 days, I can assure you, is the heaviest shelling India has seen since an all out conflict last happened between the two sides, this much is clear even from open source videos and imagery, and then there’s all the stuff people don’t know about.

As PK mentioned, they’re with the armor in Punjab and Sindh, were not used, they serve a different role in the PA. Everything else was definitely firing though.

As long as the chassis is purpose made, not true, handles it just fine.


Funnily enough you could see the disparity of force on both sides live, there was a livestream setup in Srinagar during the first couple of days and you could hear the insane amounts of artillery, mortars, RAPs and just about Every other ordinance the PA could find being tossed into India, the return fire was there but very minimal, mainly towed arty and mortars. PA took Indias claim of Pakistan only having enough artillery ammunition for a one week conflict seriously and sent down a months worth of ordinance in a day.

I am referring to taking the same tank chassis and slapping 155mm gun on it, you get all the negatives of a tank like a high fuel consumption without any benefits.

 

[Lion]

I am referring to taking the same tank chassis and slapping 155mm gun on it, you get all the negatives of a tank like a high fuel consumption without any benefits.

Missed that context, agree with you there.

 

[Metal 0-1]

I’ve gone through nearly 200 videos and photos of impacts, interceptions, and just generally missiles and explosions on the Indian side.

1. What I’ve been able to gleam is that over half the things they were calling missiles strikes were RAP artillery and MLRS, a lot of their border posts were hit, there was a bunch of good shelling on their brigade HQs and some other mil installations, and generally the artillery fire from the Pakistani side was very effective.

2. Moving onto Fatah series, now this is just one persons observations, but I do not believe the Fatah series hit most of their intended targets. For one we didn’t use many. 3 TELs, 4 at most, and at least one of them not even fully. There were definitely some interceptions, at least 2 are visually confirmed, but the Indian claims of intercepting “most or all” are BS. Most of the missiles were neither intercepted nor hit their target, instead landed anywhere from a few hundred meters to several kilometers from their targets. Whether this is user error, jamming, or some other issue, PA knows, and they will rectify it, it’s good real world data to work off. There were at least a couple of good Fatah hits.

3. Drones? Pakistan used very few, and the few it did performed very poorly. Contrary to Indian claims that Pakistan was sending hundreds of drones every day and night, most of the time dumb Indian AAA gunners were firing for hours at Lights in the mountains (with blackouts it’s literally pitch black there, you can’t tell where the mountain ends and the sky starts, a light in the mountain across the loc looks like a drone in the sky), tracers, Recce Quadcopters and Illumination shells.

4. Lastly, CM400, 3 or 4 were launched, this is contentious, i personally do not believe any of them hit their target, one landed in Kashmir and the two aimed at the S400s missed/were intercepted. I’d be more than happy to be proven wrong on this by solid evidence of damaged S400 radars coming out, but as it stands, I think the S400s narrowly escaped after being found and targeted (which is also what the PAF officially said).

Apart from this, no major missile systems are reported to be used by Pakistan (F2, Babur etc were not employed, nor were they needed, you save that stuff for higher escalation due to low numbers).

Apart from everything that CM-400 is unbelievable for me too.

 

[hussain0216]

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Are we making our own TELS now?

 

[Lion]

I’ve gone through nearly 200 videos and photos of impacts, interceptions, and just generally missiles and explosions on the Indian side.

1. What I’ve been able to gleam is that over half the things they were calling missiles strikes were RAP artillery and MLRS, a lot of their border posts were hit, there was a bunch of good shelling on their brigade HQs and some other mil installations, and generally the artillery fire from the Pakistani side was very effective.

2. Moving onto Fatah series, now this is just one persons observations, but I do not believe the Fatah series hit most of their intended targets. For one we didn’t use many. 3 TELs, 4 at most, and at least one of them not even fully. There were definitely some interceptions, at least 2 are visually confirmed, but the Indian claims of intercepting “most or all” are BS. Most of the missiles were neither intercepted nor hit their target, instead landed anywhere from a few hundred meters to several kilometers from their targets. Whether this is user error, jamming, or some other issue, PA knows, and they will rectify it, it’s good real world data to work off. There were at least a couple of good Fatah hits.

3. Drones? Pakistan used very few, and the few it did performed very poorly. Contrary to Indian claims that Pakistan was sending hundreds of drones every day and night, most of the time dumb Indian AAA gunners were firing for hours at Lights in the mountains (with blackouts it’s literally pitch black there, you can’t tell where the mountain ends and the sky starts, a light in the mountain across the loc looks like a drone in the sky), tracers, Recce Quadcopters and Illumination shells.

4. Lastly, CM400, 3 or 4 were launched, this is contentious, i personally do not believe any of them hit their target, one landed in Kashmir and the two aimed at the S400s missed/were intercepted. I’d be more than happy to be proven wrong on this by solid evidence of damaged S400 radars coming out, but as it stands, I think the S400s narrowly escaped after being found and targeted (which is also what the PAF officially said).

Apart from this, no major missile systems are reported to be used by Pakistan (F2, Babur etc were not employed, nor were they needed, you save that stuff for higher escalation due to low numbers).

To be fair - just because the F1 didn’t hit too much, doesn’t necessarily mean it failed the role in which PA employed it. If the goal was to probe Indian AD capabilities, send missiles into their territory to show we have the reach and the capability to hit them with the most basic of our platforms, and to break into enemy airspace with as few missiles as possible, then then the F1 achieved all those objectives and more with a couple of good hits. The point being that if whatever caused the lower accuracy is fixed, those missiles can be deadly, and India could not intercept most of them. In short, the missiles didn’t fail because India had the capability to stop them, there error, if there was any, was on our side, and that we can fix and shoot again, and if India doesn’t upgrade their capabilities, they will get hit.

The amount of damage done to their installations, border posts etc through artillery strikes and the potential damaging of S400 system are not just ignorable, there is a very genuine understanding in the IA at this time that they were not able to match even a quarter of the total ordinance we fired their way.

The reason we see more damage on our side is for one because BDA from artillery strikes is harder to do, even with Sat imagery, secondly because it seems PA does not want to show sat imagery (can be a multitude of reasons, but I personally believe it’s because there isn’t much to show), and lastly also because there was a total media blackout in India through the conflict. Internet was down, social media was down, nobody was allowed to Post anything, quite the opposite in Pakistan where people were sniffing rocket fumes standing a meter away from F1 systems while recording them.

 

[Thinking]

Ahem...There was no media blackout or blackout of any kind in India. I was here..on PDF..watching "live". Media blackout? Internet blackout? No body was allowed to post anything? You guys can make up anything in 21st century, can't you?