PA MLRS, Self Propelled and towed artillery [BM-11, Fatah-I GMLRS, Fatah-II] - News, Updates & Discussions

[NationalistPKDude132]

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Buddy, what are you talking about

Naliya was also hit (satellite imagery from 12th May shows), its runway got hit pretty bad, though some people say the black remnents on the runway is cloud cover although cloud cover is white

 

[Burhaan7487]

Still too early dear... You'll have to wait... Things are still hot.

It was my reasoning @Panzerkiel that trump may have been more referencing the Indian Brahmos attacks on Pakistani airbases. But do you feel this was not the case?

 

[Baibers_1260]

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Buddy, what are you talking about

View attachment 131787


Buddy, what are you talking about

Impressive.. no doubt ! An excellent effort given the circumstances.
But I am being the Devil's advocate here. Our video footage of the strikes on 27th February 2019 captured from cameras on our SOWs were far more conclusive. This time we have far less evidence of how successful our strikes have been.
We either lack satellite resources to confirm hits or the enemy is clever enough to conceal and manipulate.
A bit of history here ..
Manipulation and denial of missile strikes, is an old trick actually dating back to 1944 when Britain initially passed off German V2 missile strikes ( then termed "rockets " ) as underground gas pipeline explosions. When such explanations became unreasonable the British acknowledge but would report hits 50 or 60 km from the actual point of impact. When Germans adjusted their guidance, they actually began missing. There was no satellite observation or reconnaissance resources available then to Germany.
Recently the Russians in Ukraine ( 2022) were doing exactly the same thing hoping to confuse Ukrainian missile crews. This was a useless endeavor since the Ukrainians have access to the entire NATO satellite monitoring resources and know what they are hitting and prove it with video evidence. On the other hand with the collapse of the Soviet Union Russia has lost all its satellite monitoring capabilities and relies on drones to acquire post-strike analysis which doesn't work most of the time as the drones are shot down.
A summary;

• The Ukrainians know what they are hitting and can further refine their targeting.
• Ukrainians can intercept most Russian missile attacks
• Except for frontline tactical strikes Russians don't know what they are hitting and can't verify their hits
• Russians cant intercept most of the missiles Ukrainians use against them and has suffered disproportionately.

In this scenario I would Pakistan's position more like Russia's.
The situation also renders the nuclear "red line" obsolete. Russia like Pakistan cannot exercise or even meaningfully threaten a nuclear response because it has as of now no real means of delivering the weapons past a very effective missile defense by the enemy.
Luckily we are far more adaptable than Russia and are willing to up the ante whatever it takes. Unlike Russia Pakistan is facing an existential threat.
Regardless we must develop satellite capability to visually confirm hits if our missile strikes and improve our missile defenses. The next round will be slugging match more like Russia and Ukraine. Hopefully the Pakistan Air Force will retain its edge to prevent deep penetration strikes like Iran suffered at the hands of Israel.

 

[falcon34]

Impressive.. no doubt ! An excellent effort given the circumstances.
But I am being the Devil's advocate here. Our video footage of the strikes on 27th February 2019 captured from cameras on our SOWs were far more conclusive. This time we have far less evidence of how successful our strikes have been.
We either lack satellite resources to confirm hits or the enemy is clever enough to conceal and manipulate.
A bit of history here ..
Manipulation and denial of missile strikes, is an old trick actually dating back to 1944 when Britain initially passed off German V2 missile strikes ( then termed "rockets " ) as underground gas pipeline explosions. When such explanations became unreasonable the British acknowledge but would report hits 50 or 60 km from the actual point of impact. When Germans adjusted their guidance, they actually began missing. There was no satellite observation or reconnaissance resources available then to Germany.
Recently the Russians in Ukraine ( 2022) were doing exactly the same thing hoping to confuse Ukrainian missile crews. This was a useless endeavor since the Ukrainians have access to the entire NATO satellite monitoring resources and know what they are hitting and prove it with video evidence. On the other hand with the collapse of the Soviet Union Russia has lost all its satellite monitoring capabilities and relies on drones to acquire post-strike analysis which doesn't work most of the time as the drones are shot down.
A summary;

• The Ukrainians know what they are hitting and can further refine their targeting.
• Ukrainians can intercept most Russian missile attacks
• Except for frontline tactical strikes Russians don't know what they are hitting and can't verify their hits
• Russians cant intercept most of the missiles Ukrainians use against them and has suffered disproportionately.

In this scenario I would Pakistan's position more like Russia's.
The situation also renders the nuclear "red line" obsolete. Russia like Pakistan cannot exercise or even meaningfully threaten a nuclear response because it has as of now no real means of delivering the weapons past a very effective missile defense by the enemy.
Luckily we are far more adaptable than Russia and are willing to up the ante whatever it takes. Unlike Russia Pakistan is facing an existential threat.
Regardless we must develop satellite capability to visually confirm hits if our missile strikes and improve our missile defenses. The next round will be slugging match more like Russia and Ukraine. Hopefully the Pakistan Air Force will retain its edge to prevent deep penetration strikes like Iran suffered at the hands of Israel.

Less evidence means indians got hit pretty bad, PAF claim of dropping massive tonnage on Indian targets, as @Panzerkiel said there was a second wave of attacks.
Last time not targets were hit and it was just to show capabilities this time they got hit, I am sure PAF and PA as the footage.

 

[falcon34]

Naliya was also hit (satellite imagery from 12th May shows), its runway got hit pretty bad, though some people say the black remnents on the runway is cloud cover although cloud cover is white

There were two waves of attacks by India one was at night when they targeted our airbases and we replied to it in the morning, when we saw F1 raining on India, along with PAF launching sorties against S400 at adampur and bhuj. PAF over sirinagar.
But the indians retaliated to hitting bholari and other airbases.
Official record says we didn't retaliated to it.
That's the official version.
But some mysteries remain, like what PAF was doing over sirinagar what they hit even Indian Journalists reported the sirinagar raid, what targets were hit and weapons used in the second wave before ceasefire.

 

[NationalistPKDude132]

There were two waves of attacks by India one was at night when they targeted our airbases and we replied to it in the morning, when we saw F1 raining on India, along with PAF launching sorties against S400 at adampur and bhuj. PAF over sirinagar.
But the indians retaliated to hitting bholari and other airbases.
Official record says we didn't retaliated to it.
That's the official version.
But some mysteries remain, like what PAF was doing over sirinagar what they hit even Indian Journalists reported the sirinagar raid, what targets were hit and weapons used in the second wave before ceasefire.

i dont know if we actually passed srinagar and PAF jets went down then india wouldnt waste a minute showing pilot in full

Though probably nothing happened

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

There were two waves of attacks by India one was at night when they targeted our airbases and we replied to it in the morning, when we saw F1 raining on India, along with PAF launching sorties against S400 at adampur and bhuj. PAF over sirinagar.
But the indians retaliated to hitting bholari and other airbases.
Official record says we didn't retaliated to it.
That's the official version.
But some mysteries remain, like what PAF was doing over sirinagar what they hit even Indian Journalists reported the sirinagar raid, what targets were hit and weapons used in the second wave before ceasefire.

Or perhaps we struck them heavily, which is why their last attack on Bholari and other bases involved numerous projectiles?

 

[falcon34]

i dont know if we actually passed srinagar and PAF jets went down then india wouldnt waste a minute showing pilot in full

Though probably nothing happened

Or their jets went down on 10th in sirinagar. Indians were cheering and than everything went silent

 

[falcon34]

Or perhaps we struck them heavily, which is why their last attack on Bholari and other bases involved numerous projectiles?

The first wave going by the official acc was mid tbh. That is the reason why they struck us back. The thing is we retaliated to their strikes on bholari. What happened what was targeted remains a complete mystery we know nothing about the second wave. Second wave could have been the nail that paved way for ceasefire.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

The first wave going by the official acc was mid tbh. That is the reason why they struck us back. The thing is we retaliated to their strikes on bholari. What happened what was targeted remains a complete mystery we know nothing about the second wave. Second wave could have been the nail that paved way for ceasefire.

search on youtube uri attack 22 soldier died, i think @Panzerkiel hinted towards that. I dont know what was used. but i assume that was SH-15

 

[falcon34]

search on youtube uri attack 22 soldier died, i think @Panzerkiel hinted towards that. I dont know what was used by i assume that was SH-15

I said drones and MLRS and he said something with longer range.
Make it up for yourself.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

I said drones and MLRS and he said something with longer range.
Make it up for yourself.

Now i am confused. I was in peace believing that it was SH-15 but now you have ruined my peace
Anyways all that matters is we have hit them hard

 

[RealNapster]

If this rocket is indeed shelved it doesn't make sense to still have it on the site, Rest I don't believe Fatah-2 and this rocket (let's call it Fatah-1 ER) are interchangeable.

Tactical Ballistic missiles like F2 are best reserved for high value targets while GMLRS are best for much wider use with the benefit of higher saturation potential as you can only carry 2 F2s whilst 8 F1s on a single truck.

Our recent skirmish with India literally proves it as Fatah 1 saw much wider use than Fatah 2. Now imagine you have the ability to target 2× further with the same number or projectiles.

I'd argue China's best weapon against Taiwan isn't their airforce,navy or their hypersonic BUT their PHL-16 MLRS that can reach whole stretch of Taiwan while staying deep inside China. Cost effective and very destructive.

So I wish it gets fielded one day.

Exactly what I was thinking. Even to fire 200 F-2, we will require 100 launch platforms which are too much. Instead what if the F-2 range is decreased to 250-280 but at least 4 missiles per launcher . This way we will be able to field more missile with more range than F-1.

Now that we have Fatah -1 with 140 km range, and Fatah-3 with 450 km range. How about Fatah-2 with 250-280 km range and 4-6 missiles per vehicle .

 

[falcon34]

Exactly what I was thinking. Even to fire 200 F-2, we will require 100 launch platforms which are too much. Instead what if the F-2 range is decreased to 250-280 but at least 4 missiles per launcher . This way we will be able to field more missile with more range than F-1.

Actually there exist such a version gids first was marketing a 250km range GMLRS. With the same dia as that of F1

 

[RealNapster]

Actually there exist such a version gids first was marketing a 250km range GMLRS. With the same dia as that of F1

I found this. It's indeed a good news. If it's dia is same as F-1 then I don't believe there is any need for 140 km Fatah-1.

Suddenly we have 250 km Fatah-1 , and 450 km Fatah-3 (or should now call 2).