PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[Bilal]

Sure there are. But this is a vague description. What primarily governs the quality of your INS is the noise in your sensors, which determines the drift per time in your INS. A military grade MEMS IMU may be good enough so an INS based on it can give a position that only drifts 100m in an hour. But that would be terrible for lets say a submarine. MEMS just means on a chip. So yes there are options but it really depends on your application. You also need to. consider your loads because that lets you filter things. Submarines can use aggressive filtering because they don't experience many Gs. A tube launched mlrs experiences many Gs so it can't rely on filtering that much. Just one aspect of INS. I don't want to turn this thread into INS. INS is a field.

I meant just in context of our cruise missile application. Not that many Gs as in rockets, neither its blind like Subs, its augmented with other inputs from tercom/DSMAC.

 

[Alex]

JF 17 does carry raad, so I don't see an issue on why it wouldn't carry taimoor.

Photo Depicts Potential Nuclear Mission for Pakistan’s JF-17 Aircraft

Researchers have many questions about the modernization of Pakistan’s nuclear-capable aircraft and associated air-launched cruise missiles.

fas.org

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What I have heard is given two points.

1- Taimoor conventional warhead, and Raad capable of nuclear strikes.
2- Mirage is used because it has a longer range than JF17; thus, the missile range of 600 km could be extended due to the range of Mirages compared to JF17.
There are more chances that in real operations the JF-17 would be used in the future.

 

[JamD]

I meant just in context of our cruise missile application. Not that many Gs as in rockets, neither its blind like Subs, its augmented with other inputs from tercom/DSMAC.

Ah ok yes. Actually I think we are sourcing our IMUs from Russia. Do a search on wiki leaks for AWC and gyros. Treasure trove of info. You might even be able to guess models and makes.

EDIT: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08STATE108236_a.html
"The United States Government has information indicating that since at least early 2007, the Russian firm Optolink facilitated the sale of integrated optical chips (IOCs) to the
Advanced Engineering and Research Organization (AERO), the commercial arm of Pakistan's Air Weapons Complex. "

Scientific LTD. - Production Company "Optolink"

You want to bet one of these is on the Taimoor?

 

[safriz]

Sure there are. But this is a vague description. What primarily governs the quality of your INS is the noise in your sensors, which determines the drift per time in your INS. A military grade MEMS IMU may be good enough so an INS based on it can give a position that only drifts 100m in an hour. But that would be terrible for lets say a submarine. MEMS just means on a chip. So yes there are options but it really depends on your application. You also need to. consider your loads because that lets you filter things. Submarines can use aggressive filtering because they don't experience many Gs. A tube launched mlrs experiences many Gs so it can't rely on filtering that much. Just one aspect of INS. I don't want to turn this thread into INS. INS is a field.

But surely the commercial grade available in 2025 , must be better than the military grade in 1990?

 

[JamD]

But surely the commercial grade available in 2025 , must be better than the military grade in 1990?

Definitely!

 

[Fox]

What I have heard is given two points.

1- Taimoor conventional warhead, and Raad capable of nuclear strikes.
2- Mirage is used because it has a longer range than JF17; thus, the missile range of 600 km could be extended due to the range of Mirages compared to JF17.
There are more chances that in real operations the JF-17 would be used in the future.

There is no guesswork needed here.

The press release makes it clear that Taimoor is a conventional weapon system. It is essentially a variant of Ra'ad II with a new EO sensor along with other modifications. Even the range is similar to Ra'ad II.

The pres release notes:

• Taimoor Air-Launched Cruise Missile is capable of engaging enemy land and sea targets with high precision at a range of 600 kilometers, carrying a conventional warhead.
• Its precision-strike capability significantly enhances the conventional deterrence and operational flexibility of Pakistan Air Force, further strengthening the country’s overall defence posture.

The demarcation between nuclear and conventional systems began with FATAH series. Taimoor is carrying that trend/doctrine forward.

 

[bravo_1]

MAYBE Taimoor's 600km range requires it to fly at 10000ft for 500km and maybe it can only do a purely terrain-hugging trajectory with a range of 200km.

How do it will get passed unnoticed by enemy surveillance without hugging feature, 500km is alot without this

 

[JamD]

How do it will get passed unnoticed by enemy surveillance without hugging feature, 500km is alot without this

Firstly, I am making that number 500 km number up. The point is that the range will depend heavily on what proportion of the path is at high altitude and at low altitude. For example, you might be able to afford to fly high in areas where we know there are few radars and then dive down when a denser AD environment is encountered. All of this will have to be considered when doing path planning.

 

[kimjongun]

Ah ok yes. Actually I think we are sourcing our IMUs from Russia. Do a search on wiki leaks for AWC and gyros. Treasure trove of info. You might even be able to guess models and makes.

EDIT: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08STATE108236_a.html
"The United States Government has information indicating that since at least early 2007, the Russian firm Optolink facilitated the sale of integrated optical chips (IOCs) to the
Advanced Engineering and Research Organization (AERO), the commercial arm of Pakistan's Air Weapons Complex. "

Scientific LTD. - Production Company "Optolink"

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You want to bet one of these is on the Taimoor?

I saw similar systems on a chinese webste..they were selling similar Navigation systems

According to other wiki leaks articles we were precuring ring laser gyroscopes,carbon fibers,alloys etc from chinese firms so why the use to go to russia?
And does india knows about it?? if they do why cant they stop us from doing it??
also have we transitioned to Chinese ones as they would have introduced better variants..???

 

[bravo_1]

Firstly, I am making that number 500 km number up. The point is that the range will depend heavily on what proportion of the path is at high altitude and at low altitude. For example, you might be able to afford to fly high in areas where we know there are few radars and then dive down when a denser AD environment is encountered. All of this will have to be considered when doing path planning.

So its not about terrain maping but also intelligence that is feed onto it for path planning

 

[JamD]

So its not about terrain maping but also intelligence that is feed onto it for path planning

100%. I said this in a post somewhere that intelligence is (one of) the reason that USAs cruise missiles are so effective (as opposed to Russias).

 

[bravo_1]

100%. I said this in a post somewhere that intelligence is (one of) the reason that USAs cruise missiles are so effective (as opposed to Russias).

Then this shouldn't be a problem for us given we have some beiduo surveillance from China. We can do more damage to enemy in next conflict with swarm of cm-400 and taimur for SEAD/DEAD

 

[safriz]

Then this shouldn't be a problem for us given we have some beiduo surveillance from China. We can do more damage to enemy in next conflict with swarm of cm-400 and taimur for SEAD/DEAD

Swarm CM-400 ?
Pakistan ever bought 50 units. At least two have already been put to good use. We are left with 48 now

 

[Toxic]

Swarm CM-400 ?
Pakistan ever bought 50 units. At least two have already been put to good use. We are left with 48 now

Dude whats with you and getting publicly available common knowledge wrong? Are you doing it on purpose?

 

[bravo_1]

Swarm CM-400 ?
Pakistan ever bought 50 units. At least two have already been put to good use. We are left with 48 now

Swarm doesn't have to be in hundreds no? it depends what u are using for swarm attacks. And i think inventory, production everything is or will be changing in matter of time (hope so)