PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM
- Thread starter Fatman17
- Start date
Drones are going to play a much bigger role in warfare, going forward. Many traditional systems are going to be superseded by drones. Ukraine Russia war is the example. Ukraine has done more damage to Russian without Cruise missiles, just with drones, than Russia could do with all the sophisticated weapons they have.
JamD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
I dismissed the relay idea too quickly. Let me dismiss it comprehensively lol.
HAPS:
This is an emerging technology due to the complexity of flight control of a flexible aircraft in thin air and the power management and production from solar into electric. Companies like Airbus are in the concept phase with stuff like Zephyr:
Zephyr HAPS - AALTO
Zephyr is the world’s leading HAPS platform, and still the only fixed-wing HAPS to have proven day-and-night longevity.
www.aaltohaps.com
Even before your second post I was thinking about precluding the ID thing but you posted it lol. This is the Zephyr:
The ID Solaris is concept of a vaporware. It is a silly toy that can be a FYP of a bachelors in aerospace. They themselves say "pre-cursor of the larger STRATOS HAPS currently under development". This is code for vaporware I'm afraid (knowing ID).
The point is that HAPS are a cutting edge tech and investment into developing them is a whole ass R&D program. And that just to add a feature to Taimoor that we might not even need?
UAVs:
Shot down so easily it won't be funny - the relay would need to be over or pretty close to India right?
Datalink security:
I didn't mention this but allowing this thing to be retargeting is giving an opening to hackers to spoof it no matter how secure you think your data link is. Better not to have a receiver at all.
They are marketing it. But I think Rasoob is going to be the export success. We have a 600km missile in Taimoor that we are nerfing to 290km for export. Why would anyone want the complication of this hulking thing when they're not even getting the range?
Maybe,
but its export potential is limited to basically Russian aircraft and old western ones that the OEMs dont care for.
Toxic
Trusted Member
But isn't that market basically non existent? Because the countries that fly those old aircraft probably aren't looking for ALCMs in the first place
Bilal
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Oh no, not Taimoor (or just it). Talking in sense of extending targeting capability on long(er) ranges. Specifically, out at the sea. But yes point taken for HAPS.
Perhaps in over the sea environment UAV relay would still be an option to create long range targeting capability.
Again, excellent point about cyber vulnerability of retargeting capability. Without reliever it’s essentially an air gapped system. But wouldn’t the same apply on mid-course guidance already in use?
Bilal
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
No. It’s the name of one of the Sword of Rasul-Allah (S.A.W.). If I am not mistaking it means “that which pierces or sinks”.
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I guess NRTC has some products in this category. I do remember reading somewhere a few years ago about works in progress for development of an SDR strapped to a drone as a relay station for long distance secure communications.I dismissed the relay idea too quickly. Let me dismiss it comprehensively lol.
HAPS:
This is an emerging technology due to the complexity of flight control of a flexible aircraft in thin air and the power management and production from solar into electric. Companies like Airbus are in the concept phase with stuff like Zephyr:
(Airbus bought AALTO I think).Zephyr HAPS - AALTO
Zephyr is the world’s leading HAPS platform, and still the only fixed-wing HAPS to have proven day-and-night longevity.
Even before your second post I was thinking about precluding the ID thing but you posted it lol. This is the Zephyr:
View attachment 169962
The ID Solaris is concept of a vaporware. It is a silly toy that can be a FYP of a bachelors in aerospace. They themselves say "pre-cursor of the larger STRATOS HAPS currently under development". This is code for vaporware I'm afraid (knowing ID).
The point is that HAPS are a cutting edge tech and investment into developing them is a whole ass R&D program. And that just to add a feature to Taimoor that we might not even need?
UAVs:
Shot down so easily it won't be funny - the relay would need to be over or pretty close to India right?
Datalink security:
I didn't mention this but allowing this thing to be retargeting is giving an opening to hackers to spoof it no matter how secure you think your data link is. Better not to have a receiver at all.
They are marketing it. But I think Rasoob is going to be the export success. We have a 600km missile in Taimoor that we are nerfing to 290km for export. Why would anyone want the complication of this hulking thing when they're not even getting the range?
For example this Eagle Eye MANET https://nrtc.com.pk/NRTC/NRTC/products_description_defence.php#
Their website is rubbish. Quoting the description of the system.
"
Eagle Eye System
Eagle Eye is a fully IP-based communication system using MANET technology for the demand of the Airborne platforms. It is a high-capacity, easy-to-operate, portable, quickly deployable, and manageable communication system for the tactical needs of the military. This solution can be deployed in various aircraft configurations(rotary,unmanned). The system can serve ISR purpose more efficiently and effectively with simultaneously voice and data support.TagsEagle Eye System "
End Quote.
Such arrangement is cheap and sacrificial. Half a dozen drones doing the same thing, a few can be shot down without adversely effecting the communication.
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Oh ok... You guys talking about Cruise missile range communications?
Thats a text message based two way communication, on Beidou system.
Pakistan is a military grade user of the system, and a contributor as in a ground station operator of the system.
Any new coordinates are sent to the missile as text message. Same goes for end mission or change mission commands.
The missile too can send a text message back to the command station, about its location, health and just before its hitting the target. I dont know the full details obviously. But i did this research a while ago for a project of my own, and Beidou GNSS satellites having the capability of text messaging, kept coming up.
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Beidou is GNSS.
JamD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Honestly, I don't know. I don't have a good solution to the problem besides satellites.
This is actually answering your last question too. One way to defeat jamming/spoofing is to be directional. So midcourse guidance missiles have receivers on their tails that are looking for signals from behind so to spoof that signal you would have to be between the missile and launch radar, which is basically impossible in most cases.
This is the same reason satellites work well because their signals are coming from the sky so you have to be above the node you want to jam/spoof. There are GNSS antennaes that resist jamming by looking up but since these sensors are on FPV drones and CMs fly near the ground, you can usually spoof them by flying a EW node above the target. I'm digressing. The answer is directionality.
Yes, with an additional capacity of relaying text messages, as part of their military grade service for authorized users. Unless they improved, the last time i checked the satellites had capacity of sending and receiving 120 character short messages or SMS. Giving such two way communications, global coverage.
This is what sets Beidou apart from American GPS.
JamD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Yeah. Someone else was also confusing Beidou for a sat system. It is a GNSS system with an extremely limited SMS system for emergency relief. Did you consider how easy it would be to spoof a text message? It is not secure.
JamD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
This does not make Beidou a satcom system. Sorry.
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