PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Hello sir,

You are one of my favorite members. Always show respect and consider others view. That is why im compel to ask you that why you think AD is weaker than Indian ? if s400 couldn't do much against s400 with cm 400 AKG. Then in my opinion Ground Based AD systems are just not that effective in Indo Pak scenario. With drones, missiles and guided rockets its already a challenge for even US to counter them easily.

Between I think even Pakistan military never said Taimoor has all the answers. Its just alternate delivery system of conventional and nuclear strike. which is strategic depth.

Pakistan has HQ9, Spada 2000 (Aspide), LY 80 which has been tested against cruise missiles vastly in testing by china before even inducting. The Chinese tested subsonic and supersonic missiles against it and it had greater than 50% probability in single shot so in reality even if its not single shot but destroying the missile on the way with multiple launches increases the efficiency if not single shot I repeat.

Truth is Pakistan only lacks in quantity of AD systems causing blind spots.

We had perfect victory against Indian airforce shows that our doctrine just focused on Air force to airforce fights and on 2nd tier anticipated missile attacks.

However there are reports of indian missiles kill by soft kill and hard kill. having soft kill capability against supersonic cruise missile is marvel itself as very rarely it is reported in Ukraine war. its either hard kill or miss. Pakistan did both ways.

We lack in supersonic cruise missiles but our subsonic systems are hardened to pierce through Indian AD's undetected.

Personal opinion: Fatah is more of my choice then cruise missiles.

First off, clear reason for my skepticism (detailed post later)

bec. Israel is assisting Ind. in improving flying profiles of their missiles.
thats why PRalay test was declared successful, bec. it deploys dual trajectory profile of ballistic and cruise missile (at near hypersonic speed)

 

[JamD]

I feel the Pakistani government should establish worker cooperatives in such industries, providing them with capital and granting membership to skilled workers and management. The pay gap should be limited, with top management earning no more than 10–15 times the average salary. These co-ops could draw on the experience of successful co-op giants like Mondragon to structure themselves through the direct participation of these giant co-ops initially (which I believe they are happy to provide), while the government gradually shields the domestic market from foreign competitors through higher import tariffs. Members should not be allowed to sell equity, and dividends should be distributed very sparingly, with most profits reinvested into R&D and expansion. This model would prevent capital flight and the diversion of funds to unproductive sectors. The cooperatives would remain entirely privately owned by their members and governed by co-op bylaws, with no government control.


Some may call this naive, but I think it is at least as naive to believe that Pakistani capitalists can industrialise the country. They are parasites.

@JamD @Oscar Penny for your thoughts?

So these are relatively small scale policies that may or may not work in Pakistan's environemt - I'm not an expert. But I have seen enough to know that you need things to change on the government long-term policy level: so for example you need to reincentivize the tax structure and make your corporate law cases run fast and judiciously instead of doing band aid solutions like SIFC. What businessman will invest based on the promises of SIFC when they don't even know if SIFC will be there in 5 years.

 

[mythbuster]

View attachment 170795View attachment 170796

It looks aesthetically unpleasant Humpty Dumpty. ..yea , but it will get the job done.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Hello sir,

You are one of my favorite members. Always show respect and consider others view. That is why im compel to ask you that why you think AD is weaker than Indian ? if s400 couldn't do much against s400 with cm 400 AKG. Then in my opinion Ground Based AD systems are just not that effective in Indo Pak scenario. With drones, missiles and guided rockets its already a challenge for even US to counter them easily.

Between I think even Pakistan military never said Taimoor has all the answers. Its just alternate delivery system of conventional and nuclear strike. which is strategic depth.

Pakistan has HQ9, Spada 2000 (Aspide), LY 80 which has been tested against cruise missiles vastly in testing by china before even inducting. The Chinese tested subsonic and supersonic missiles against it and it had greater than 50% probability in single shot so in reality even if its not single shot but destroying the missile on the way with multiple launches increases the efficiency if not single shot I repeat.

Truth is Pakistan only lacks in quantity of AD systems causing blind spots.

We had perfect victory against Indian airforce shows that our doctrine just focused on Air force to airforce fights and on 2nd tier anticipated missile attacks.

However there are reports of indian missiles kill by soft kill and hard kill. having soft kill capability against supersonic cruise missile is marvel itself as very rarely it is reported in Ukraine war. its either hard kill or miss. Pakistan did both ways.

We lack in supersonic cruise missiles but our subsonic systems are hardened to pierce through Indian AD's undetected.

Personal opinion: Fatah is more of my choice then cruise missiles.

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your post is 100% based on facts, there is no denying that.

but it overlooks, one key detail, which is, strategic depth.

This is important, bec. it will re-define how, missile war is fought unlike IR ISL war!

role of Ind. missiles will not be to destroy cities, rather, they will focus on our ammo. dumps which house our missiles.

so, we need more offensive missiles along with cruise missiles

 

[mythbuster]

So these are relatively small scale policies that may or may not work in Pakistan's environemt - I'm not an expert. But I have seen enough to know that you need things to change on the government long-term policy level: so for example you need to reincentivize the tax structure and make your corporate law cases run fast and judiciously instead of doing band aid solutions like SIFC. What businessman will invest based on the promises of SIFC when they don't even know if SIFC will be there in 5 years.

State will have to grow balls to tackle vested interests and change archaic laws , rules and regulations.

 

[mythbuster]

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your post is 100% based on facts, there is no denying that.

but it overlooks, one key detail, which is, strategic depth.

This is important, bec. it will re-define how, missile war is fought unlike IR ISL war!

role of Ind. missiles will not be to destroy cities, rather, they will focus on our ammo. dumps which house our missiles.

so, we need more offensive missiles along with cruise missiles

Our assets won't be sitting ducks..... Pakistan is pretty good in camouflage and subterfuge.

 

[Psyko70]

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your post is 100% based on facts, there is no denying that.

but it overlooks, one key detail, which is, strategic depth.

This is important, bec. it will re-define how, missile war is fought unlike IR ISL war!

role of Ind. missiles will not be to destroy cities, rather, they will focus on our ammo. dumps which house our missiles.

so, we need more offensive missiles along with cruise missiles

That is known for years india doesnt want to do city attacks but precision attacks on strategic positions and logistics.

The offensive missile options are there in pak and worked good in may attack.

 

[Ali_Baba]

So these are relatively small scale policies that may or may not work in Pakistan's environemt - I'm not an expert. But I have seen enough to know that you need things to change on the government long-term policy level: so for example you need to reincentivize the tax structure and make your corporate law cases run fast and judiciously instead of doing band aid solutions like SIFC. What businessman will invest based on the promises of SIFC when they don't even know if SIFC will be there in 5 years.

It is not lost on investors how compromised the judicial system is, and how it cannot protect them or their assets if they don't payoff the right people.

SIFC is band aid, but band aid don't work for the global investment community who taken a clinical cold view of the world and where they feel it is safe to park their money for investment returns.

The Fauji just don't understand or refuse to accept that every single one of their act of political shenanigans undermines Pakistan in the eyes of the world as a place to do business.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

That is known for years india doesnt want to do city attacks but precision attacks on strategic positions and logistics.

The offensive missile options are there in pak and worked good in may attack.

now, that statement, rather this analysis, does not include Ind. ability to improve missile performance based on feedback from Isl, after June 2025 war.

Pak. has hypers too, but, those are not 100% hypersonic, Isl. will also offer SM6 like missile to Ind, which is a quite capable missile to take down dual trajectory missiles

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Our assets won't be sitting ducks..... Pakistan is pretty good in camouflage and subterfuge.

in our scenario, we dont have the luxury of 'pretty good' performance. Either, we take them down or the inverse will happen (nothing in between, it is decisive!)

 

[arsalan345]

Hi, I wanted to politely ask where you got this information? We honestly do not know whose interception rate was better.

Yes, some Brahmos missiles got throught, but many were intercepted. But as the IAF ACM Bharti said when asked about planes being shot down, "losses happen in combat". Lol!

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I also spoke to a a JF-17 pilot at RIAT 2025. He said the PAF lobbed a "whole bunch of munitions" into India and hit C2 nodes (command and control). The PAF is just being silent about what was launched.

Nevertheless, there is always room for improvement and both sides will be making the necessary adjustments.

Please stop this 7-0. We did it. Great job. World doesn't stop. It moves on. You can see our airbases and see theirs and you can have your answer about interception rate. I am not here to lie. You are a fanboy so continue with your logic. We did this, we did that. Wake up fanboy!

 

[arsalan345]

Was it? Please share the rates with the types from both sides.

See our airbases. You have eyes right! See theirs. I hope you have common sense.

 

[krash]

See our airbases. You have eyes right! See theirs. I hope you have common sense.

Rate of success = No. Successes/No. Attempts. Please provide the numbers.

 

[Gripen9]

Rate of success = No. Successes/No. Attempts. Please provide the numbers.

They launched 50+ SCALPS/Brahmos/atleast 1 Rampage

Out of which we had 3 hits that caused noticeable infra damage at Nur Khan, Bholari and Shahbaz. 4th was at Civilian RYK airport that has no AD around it.
that account to 6-8% success rate.
They have claimed to have destroyed radars at Muridke and hits at Skardu and 20 other places but no confirmation of those.

Worst was Bholari that resulted in the martydom of 5 valuable souls.

 

[RAMPAGE]

So these are relatively small scale policies that may or may not work in Pakistan's environemt - I'm not an expert. But I have seen enough to know that you need things to change on the government long-term policy level: so for example you need to reincentivize the tax structure and make your corporate law cases run fast and judiciously instead of doing band aid solutions like SIFC. What businessman will invest based on the promises of SIFC when they don't even know if SIFC will be there in 5 years.

Definitely. However, I don't think that's sufficient for creating optimal conditions for industrialisation. The government needs to invest its own money at the end of the day, I think. And a co-op model seems quite suitable.