PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Ali_Baba]

Agreed, with Link -16 and being able to "talk" to Erieyes and ground radars and witth great precision attack capability F-16s could form a formidable second line for both air defence and close air support leaving offensive counter air and deep strike to J-10/JF-17/J-35

We could do with a few more airframes though, say get the fleet up to around 100 to support a fleet of 200 JF-17s, 72 J-10s and 36 J-35s

The problem with the F16 is that 2nd airframes may cost as much as a new build JF17C, and most certainly will be technologically inferior. The one advantage that the F16 still has is its payload(nothing in PAF can carry more) and its ability to maintain a high operational serviceability/tempo.

I don't see PAF going for more F16s unless they are throw away bargain basement throw away prices as the value/cost ratio is not favourable imho.

 

[r3alist]

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[Ali_Baba]

I speculate that part of the motivation for this package is to keep one foot in the Pakistani Air force ecosystem

From an American perspective, the momentum is clearly China and Turkey for Pakistan, and those f16s which were once tremendous leverage can no longer be used as leverage, it's the Americans going back to being more open hearted let's say

For the paf, they get a good upgrade package, more prolonged use from an old favourite, upgraded, and I suppose allow the Americans to feel that Pakistan is not totally lost to them, but on a legacy fighter jet that has a medium term demise path

With the end of the F16, we may well see an era where there is no USA front line fighter in PAF service. The F-35 is a no no with its logistics "support system" ( ie more of a remote on/off switch!! ) and there is nothing else on the horizon that can compete with the J-35A/Kaan for new procurement unless they develop a "monkey" variant of the F-47 for "export sales".

Food for thought for the USA, who have gone from " we wont sell you anything if you don't do what we tell you to do", to "oh crap, these folks don't need us anymore".

Interesting times for sure.

 

[r3alist]

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With the end of the F16, we may well see an era where there is no USA front line fighter in PAF service. The F-35 is a no no with its logistics "support system" ( ie more of a remote on/off switch!! ) and there is nothing else on the horizon that can compete with the J-35A/Kaan for new procurement unless they develop a "monkey" variant of the F-47 for "export sales".

Food for thought for the USA, who have gone from " we wont sell you anything if you don't do what we tell you to do", to "oh crap, these folks don't need us anymore".

Interesting times for sure.

I happened to come across quoted video which says as much, the reference to balance of power however is interesting.

It's the Chinese equipment which is now going to determine balance of power more than the f-16, perhaps this is the sort of rationale needed to get this through the red tape

This is further credit to the Air force who kept plugging away in the background, planning and executing.

 

[mythbuster]

I happened to come across quoted video which says as much, the reference to balance of power however is interesting.

It's the Chinese equipment which is now going to determine balance of power more than the f-16, perhaps this is the sort of rationale needed to get this through the red tape

This is further credit to the Air force who kept plugging away in the background, planning and executing.

Logic is simple ! If India can get military gear from Russia and America without any qualms , why can't Pakistan get it from China and America ? ..... Pakistan has fine tuned the art of balancing.

 

[Salza]

This deal does not mean V upgrade is off the table. This update would have needed to be done with or without the V upgrade.

What else will left after this apart from AESA radar ? To me block 52 are virtually of V standards after all these upgrades. AESA coverage can be covered through Eireye. To me, these are precursors to be officially designated as V standard and arrival of AIM 120 Ds soon. Our F16s fleet is heading towards that direction.

 

[hasssanali8998]

we may well see an era where there is no USA front line fighter in PAF service.

i have to say it was good time from f86 to f104 to f16

 

[r3alist]

Logic is simple ! If India can get military gear from Russia and America without any qualms , why can't Pakistan get it from China and America ? ..... Pakistan has fine tuned the art of balancing.

Remember that America seeks to maintain its own grip on South Asia through balance of power considerations

Amongst the india-pakistan bickering, it's sometimes (read always) forgotten that the actual levers or power are externally controlled.

So it is what it is, but there is a qualitative difference in working with China versus USA

 

[Falcon26]

Used airframes under EDA do not require congressional approval I think, that was the point of MNNA status

Wrong.

MNNA does not waive congressional approval. Only thing MNNA gets you is priority access and generous financing terms. There’s absolutely zero difference between an MNNA & a normal country in terms of congressional role.

 

[Trailer23]

As a major Viper fanboy, I can honestly say that i'm not all too thrilled by what we're getting.

This is the kind of stuff that should've been offered to us when we helped the US evacuate their sh!t out of Afghanistan.

Have people forgotten how CH-47 flew over Karachi ...

Evacuating their people in C-17 Globemaster III & C-130's was the easy part.

It was the load that crossed into Pakistan & then shipped to various Military Bases in the GCC was where we should have been given this stuff in return.

Not sure why our leadership were asleep - at the time.

RUNians will cry even if we get a single canopy - so lets not get into that.

- Still don't know what "UPGRADES" are there gonna be for the Block 52's.

- Still don't know which ones are going through MLU.

- Why wasn't the SABR (AESA) not on the list of item ...

 

[OG Pakhtun.]

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[rafale]

What else will left after this apart from AESA radar ? To me block 52 are virtually of V standards after all these upgrades. AESA coverage can be covered through Eireye. To me, these are precursors to be officially designated as V standard and arrival of AIM 120 Ds soon. Our F16s fleet is heading towards that direction.

There is a lot of stuff in V standard.......computers, displays, EW/ECCM modules in which case you can either opt for Pods or internal embedded ones (so you don't have to waste the hardpoint for using Pods), possibly engine management software, IFF, radios, radar and its associated electrical and signals connections.....lots of stuff. Then you can also opt for the airfrance life extension upgrades....to push serviceability to 12000 hrs.....i believe the current MLU ones are already at 8000 hrs of use and BLK52s probably at 4000 hrs.

V kits essentially push the BLK52s to a whole new level, which can go toe to toe with Rafale F4 standards.

 

[Samurai]

With the end of the F16, we may well see an era where there is no USA front line fighter in PAF service. The F-35 is a no no with its logistics "support system" ( ie more of a remote on/off switch!! ) and there is nothing else on the horizon that can compete with the J-35A/Kaan for new procurement unless they develop a "monkey" variant of the F-47 for "export sales".

Food for thought for the USA, who have gone from " we wont sell you anything if you don't do what we tell you to do", to "oh crap, these folks don't need us anymore".

Interesting times for sure.

"With the end of the F16, we may well see an era where there is no USA front line fighter in PAF service."

Man, as an F-16 fan, I really wanted PAF to at least get their hands on the F-16V's, but I think this will not be a dream come true.
Nevertheless, there will always be a special place for F-16 in our hearts and also in PAF hall of fame.

 

[Samurai]

About CMBRE (Common Munitions BIT Reprogramming Equipment)?
every smart bomb or missile on the F-16 has a small built-in computer. Before the jet can carry or drop it, the F-16’s main computer (called the Operational Flight Program or OFP) must be able to “talk” to the bomb’s computer and run health checks.The tool that does this talking and checking is called CMBRE.


To fully test and certify the new upgraded OFP + CMBRE software, the U.S. Air Force almost always demands that you physically hang a real (inert) bomb of the exact same shape and weight that was used when the jet was originally certified decades ago — and that reference shape is almost always the classic Mk-82 500-lb body.Even if Pakistan will only drop H-4, GBU-12, or whatever in real life, the Americans still want those six dummy Mk-82s hung under the jet once or twice just to prove that the new software works exactly like the old certification runs. It’s a paperwork and safety checkbox

A future hint for GBU-39?
The GBU-39 SDB is a very small (250-lb class) GPS-guided glide bomb. Four of them are carried together on one special rack called the BRU-61.
That same BRU-61 rack was originally designed and certified to carry four normal Mk-82-sized weapons.
When any air force wants to clear the SDB on the F-16 for the first time, the safest and cheapest way to do the very first separation (release) tests is to load four inert Mk-82 bodies on the BRU-61 instead of real SDBs. The weight, center of gravity, and airflow disturbance are almost identical, so the jet “thinks” it is dropping normal bombs, but there is zero risk.

Only after those inert Mk-82 drops go perfectly do they move to live SDB drops.So if the U.S. and Pakistan are quietly preparing for future SDB integration on Block-52s, these six inert Mk-82s would be the perfect.

Very well explained in lay man terms for folks like me

 

[ghazi52]

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