PAF F-16 | Discussions

Hussain said:
or no gora available for maintenance.....
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They will always be there, and with Israel's relationship with the UAE at a new height, they have no shortage of maintenance crews. These FSola version is still super capable. UAEAF did not retire its Mirage 5 until it was all done and dusted; the same will apply to these F-16s. However, as part of the Rafale deal, France will buy back the Mirage 2000. But that is a different deal altogether, and IMHO the Mirage 2000-9 is no F16 Blk60/61. If anything it is roughly equivalent to JF17 Blk2 or inferior by a small margin.
 
studsmart said:
They will always be there, and with Israel's relationship with the UAE at a new height, they have no shortage of maintenance crews. These FSola version is still super capable. UAEAF did not retire its Mirage 5 until it was all done and dusted; the same will apply to these F-16s. However, as part of the Rafale deal, France will buy back the Mirage 2000. But that is a different deal altogether, and IMHO the Mirage 2000-9 is no F16 Blk60/61. If anything it is roughly equivalent to JF17 Blk2 or inferior by a small margin.
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These Block 60s are extremely capable in strike role. They have enhanced avionics, multiple mission profile and extended ranges compared to other F-16 versions. PAF F-16s don't come close.

Their missions against IRIAF would have been good case studies but that never happened. UAE could have gone for F-15Es also but instead chose to invest in F-16s instead.
 
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Oscar said:
The 70/72 (V is actually the upgrade if I am not mistaken) still builds on the core Block-50/52 frame.

The E/F is nearly akin to a very different beast and more so the APG-80 actually outperforms the SABR in certain niches due to power/cooling architecture. Also why the 132 is needed due to the additional weight of everything it carries which led to a higher than usual frequency of burst tires on landing for them because apparently they kept the same tires.

Here is some cool stuff on it (with some "signal-ly" stuff in there)
F-16E overview
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I agree.

Also Block-52+ was being pitched to the rest of the world when block-60 was entering/had entered service in UAEAF. Block-52+ didn't come close to Block-60. Even F-16i Sufa was bit inferior in some aspects, standing between 52+ and 60.
 
Trailer23 said:
You're mistaken...

The No. 29 Squadron has a handful of Vipers - 05 to be exact. That doesn't make it a usual Squadron.

It is part of Combat Commanders' School (CCS), where the role is of: Advanced Air Combat Tactics Development & Training.

I have also had the pleasure of doing some work for them (individually) and their Squadron.
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Well, not really. but okay as per internet talk, yes there are only 5 x F-16s in 29th.
 
Yasser76 said:
Yeah, think you are spot on here @Oscar

As per our chat on the Indo-Pak thread, I think the ADFs may be more hinderance then help in many ways.

Some of these airframes or all are possibly 3rd hand (USAF, then Jordan then Pakistan)
In theory they are all Blcok 15OCU standard (OCU standingh for Operational Capabilities Upgrade, not Operational Conversion Unit, although confusingly we use them for conversion too)

They obviously do not have the MLU upgrade so capability wise probably on par OPR less then a Block 1/II JF-17 (but even JF-17s have BVR). No one is flying these anymore so unsure how we are supporting the APG-66

In my opinion just station these by Iran/Afghanistan, let 11 Sqd do proper OCU job with it's MLU F-16A/Bs

PAF keeping these birds for the sake of Sqd numbers, the cost, crew and space could well be better served by another Block III JF-17.
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ADFs are serving a completely different purpose.
 
Yasser76 said:
Literally just upgrades of data link and radios, and "Regional Supa powa" has to go running to Sugar Daddy and cry, what on earth must the Yanks think of them....
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The tantrum is expected from Indians but if US is to listen to them...it's their lost honestly. Most sellers of defense equipment usually milk both sides and sell to both sides. Even a much smaller player than the US has held India by the balls(as we saw with Rafael). What option would India have if US didn't budge? Not buy US equipment? Go to Russia(which they are clearly unsatisfied with when it comes to defense equipment)...not to mention they already have a lot of US equipment like Apaches, P8Is, etc. India holds zero power...the whole dangling of carrot(money) has been tried for decades with MMRCA(supposed mother of all deals) and no one is going to fall for this stuff anymore.

US has tried such things in the past for its own interests(to keep Pakistan weaker than India..so India can take on China). It only led to lost sales and nothing much was gained. Instead of AH1Z..Pakistan got Z10ME...instead of more F16s, Pakistan acquired J10s. These are just lost sales to US.

With China's rise technologically and economically..along with Pakistan's access to Turkish defense industry...Indian wishes to curb Pakistan's ability to acquire defense equipment that will be a headache to India...is nothing but a pipe dream. Even if this works for US...China would provide the alternative and India would only be able to watch from the sidelines.
 
Cookie Monster said:
The tantrum is expected from Indians but if US is to listen to them...it's their lost honestly. Most sellers of defense equipment usually milk both sides and sell to both sides. Even a much smaller player than the US has held India by the balls(as we saw with Rafael). What option would India have if US didn't budge? Not buy US equipment? Go to Russia(which they are clearly unsatisfied with when it comes to defense equipment)...not to mention they already have a lot of US equipment like Apaches, P8Is, etc. India holds zero power...the whole dangling of carrot(money) has been tried for decades with MMRCA(supposed mother of all deals) and no one is going to fall for this stuff anymore.

US has tried such things in the past for its own interests(to keep Pakistan weaker than India..so India can take on China). It only led to lost sales and nothing much was gained. Instead of AH1Z..Pakistan got Z10ME...instead of more F16s, Pakistan acquired J10s. These are just lost sales to US.

With China's rise technologically and economically..along with Pakistan's access to Turkish defense industry...Indian wishes to curb Pakistan's ability to acquire defense equipment that will be a headache to India...is nothing but a pipe dream. Even if this works for US...China would provide the alternative and India would only be able to watch from the sidelines.
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Pakistan is a very small market for USA. Losing sales ? No. The AH-1Z were offered through FMS assistance meaning almost free or very less price. The FMS was cancelled by USA and Pakistan said it will not pay full price as this wasnt the deal.

Similarly, the original block 52+ package offered 36 F-16s, in which 18 were optional. This fell under FMS package which was cancelled so PAF asked for 8 F-16C later on. USA offered them on full price. PAF refused.
 
Trailer23 said:
You're mistaken...

The No. 29 Squadron has a handful of Vipers - 05 to be exact. That doesn't make it a usual Squadron.

It is part of Combat Commanders' School (CCS), where the role is of: Advanced Air Combat Tactics Development & Training.

I have also had the pleasure of doing some work for them (individually) and their Squadron.
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Its a smaller unit but with more than 5 a/c. Its has all the structure of any regular sqn, OC, flight commander, SEO, EOs etc.

Just thats its embedded with ACE/CCS does not make it less of a functional sqn.
 
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