PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Ak01]

The product exists, the Meteor. Range addition isn't exactly rocket science if the Radar supports it, which we know it does.

damn, our resident radar, ew, finance, economics, politics, missile, defence, naval, aerospace expert has decided to also bless us with his expertise in literal rocket science. Such a versatile man, inshaallah raja for PM

 

[Trailer23]

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I kid you not, that video showed up on my youtube feed almost 3 hours back and I saw it!

how did it show on your feed too?!!

Odd..., I uploaded this video like 4 Years ago on my Channel.

Most of the OG Members from [PDF 1.0] have already seen it.

 

[Raider 21]

Odd..., I uploaded this video like 4 Years ago on my Channel.

Most of the OG Members from [PDF 1.0] have already seen it.

Same original footage is available for download on DVIDS. Just a re-upload by another user

 

[ghazi52]

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[Yasser76]

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Never thought I would say this, but F-16 cockpit looks dates compared to the Chinese planes in PAF

 

[MirageV3ff]

Never thought I would say this, but F-16 cockpit looks dates compared to the Chinese planes in PAF

In fairness block 50/52 came out in the 90s entering service around '92 I believe, meanwhile J-10Cs are far recent in comparison, coming out in the mid 2010s, entering service in 2017.

Even though J-10 cockpit has what 3 screens instead of the one massive iPad style that's becoming popular in 5th gen and in some 4.5 gen aircraft

 

[Ali_Baba]

Never thought I would say this, but F-16 cockpit looks dates compared to the Chinese planes in PAF

Even the F16V standard looks dated. This is restricted by the inherent design of the cockpit which does not allow a large MFD to be deployed without very significant and expensive redesign. They had proposed this as part of Block-21 for India.

Future wars are built on information of the combat area, and for that you need alot of real estate on the screens within the jet. That is why I would have preferred to have seen Block III with a large MFD, but it did not happen. Maybe PFX will go down that road. We know both Kaan and the J35 have large single MFDs.

 

[Ak01]

Even the F16V standard looks dated. This is restricted by the inherent design of the cockpit which does not allow a large MFD to be deployed without very significant and expensive redesign. They had proposed this as part of Block-21 for India.

Future wars are built on information of the combat area, and for that you need alot of real estate on the screens within the jet. That is why I would have preferred to have seen Block III with a large MFD, but it did not happen. Maybe PFX will go down that road. We know both Kaan and the J35 have large single MFDs.

View attachment 143402

this is pointless though, its one large screen, segmented to show different things. So one large screen simulating smaller ones lol.

It makes sense on new designs for flexibilty/cost saving, but, the F-16V's screens are reconfigurable etc anyway.




this was the rafale a in the 80s btw.

 

[Ak01]

Never thought I would say this, but F-16 cockpit looks dates compared to the Chinese planes in PAF

J-10A was similarly old looking, if not, lookks even older due to how bulky it is.

C and 70 cockpits r largely identical, f-16 just more intimate

 

[Ali_Baba]

this is pointless though, its one large screen, segmented to show different things. So one large screen simulating smaller ones lol.

It makes sense on new designs for flexibilty/cost saving, but, the F-16V's screens are reconfigurable etc anyway.

View attachment 143417


this was the rafale a in the 80s btw.

View attachment 143418

Its not really about replicating old display layout on a large MFAD, it is more about the flexibility it gives you to have a tactical view that can overlay multiple datasets but still be useable and understandable.

The below image, is a work in progress for the latest variant of the Typhoon and will be the one that Turkieye will be getting. It shows how for example target information can be displayed on a larger display making it easier for the pilot to see what they are aiming for in terms of verification. More information can be overlayed and still be presentable and useable because you have the display size that it to be useable. These displays can display information more intelligently, avoiding the need to navigate many subpages of displays to get the information that they need. These displays bring a lot more flexibility to the table.

So, I disagree with your assertion that it is pointless, I do think the opposite is true

 

[Ak01]

Its not really about replicating old display layout on a large MFAD, it is more about the flexibility it gives you to have a tactical view that can overlay multiple datasets but still be useable and understandable.

The below image, is a work in progress for the latest variant of the Typhoon and will be the one that Turkieye will be getting. It shows how for example target information can be displayed on a larger display making it easier for the pilot to see what they are aiming for in terms of verification. More information can be overlayed and still be presentable and useable because you have the display size that it to be useable. These displays can display information more intelligently, avoiding the need to navigate many subpages of displays to get the information that they need. These displays bring a lot more flexibility to the table.

So, I disagree with your assertion that it is pointless, I do think the opposite is true

View attachment 143426

but again, the display is segmented, so while yes segment size is reconfigurable, there are limits to how reconfigurable, so you're still in the same place. Maybe pointless is an exaggeration, but likely more gimmicky perhaps?

 

[Ali_Baba]

but again, the display is segmented, so while yes segment size is reconfigurable, there are limits to how reconfigurable, so you're still in the same place.

If you don't understand how a much larger higher resolution display surface does not give you opportunities for a much better man machine interface, then it is not possible to have this conversation with you.

Cost savings of displays is insignificant to the cost of the platform these days, and there is more risk a single damaged display can take out a plane but manufacturers are still pursuing them despite those risks. They are, because that is what modern warfare is starting to demand more and more.

Man machine interfaces with the associated display and interaction cycles, is a significant discipline in its own right ..

 

[Yasser76]

If you don't understand how a much larger higher resolution display surface does not give you opportunities for a much better man machine interface, then it is not possible to have this conversation with you.

Man machine interfaces with the associated display and interaction cycles, is a significant discipline in its own right ..

Agreed, a lot of research would have gone into putting teh best displays in and the optimal use of cockpit space here

 

[Ak01]

If you don't understand how a much larger higher resolution display surface does not give you opportunities for a much better man machine interface, then it is not possible to have this conversation with you.

Cost savings of displays is insignificant to the cost of the platform these days, and there is more risk a single damaged display can take out a plane but manufacturers are still pursuing them despite those risks. They are, because that is what modern warfare is starting to demand more and more.

Man machine interfaces with the associated display and interaction cycles, is a significant discipline in its own right ..

theres alot of gimmicks in aviation sold with marketing mumbo jumbo like this in aviation, i know because im around it daily.

Pretty mind boggling that you're struggling to grasp the fact that they're still segmented, even though they're higher resolution.

BAE's own site tells you about the 'benefits' of such a solution and they revolve around the fact that their previous displays could only do one task at a time. You could not segment them. This does not necessitate a large format display necessarily, IF it was that critical to mission success and efficiency, it would be a requirement on F-16V's, JF-17s etc, especially F-16s considering Lockheed has already done all the certification work etc for the F-21.

But hey ho, what do i know, im only around avionics my entire day!

 

[Ak01]

Agreed, a lot of research would have gone into putting teh best displays in and the optimal use of cockpit space here

yes, because literally optimal use is one large display, but it is unlikely to be as critical as you're making it out to be