TAC
Registered Member
U know you’re gonna have to redo that at some stage
I’ve got the kit ready to build
PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion
- Thread starter amuqeetk
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I’ve got the kit ready to buildExactly, this is what I stated earlier. We can therefore reasonably assume that PAF possesses 25 J10CE aircraft; however, we can only provide pictorial evidence for 20 of these.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
No dude - you can't hide "5 planes like that". That is not how this works. The contract was for 20, and that is what has been delivered. There are no magical hidden J10CE's anywhere.
No, in fact exactly the opposite: We cannot conclude the "PAF possesses 25 J10CE"; it's exactly like we "reasonably assume that PAF possesses J-35A"! In fact we can assume nothing.
Ibbi32
Registered Member
The biggest evidence that there were only 20 aircraft is because cobra’s squadron was assigned the primary intercept mission and thus had to be prepared for full squadron scramble at any moment. And we know that on 6-7th may cobras scrambled 18 a/c with 2 kept in reserve ready to launch if needed. Thus 20 aircraft
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
It got as far as an evaluation yes? I’ve seen some Chinese blogs talk about PAF giving feed back
I’ve attempted to find the documentation over the years but to no avail.
That’s great info thank you!
东风夜放花千树
Registered Member
Chinese-produced aircraft are not delivered on a large scale; generally, a few are produced first and delivered to the military. After serving for a period of time, the military provides feedback for modifications. The defense industry then makes adjustments based on this feedback and repeats the process.
The development of the J-10 models includes the J-10, J-10A, J-10S, J-10B and its thrust-vectoring demonstration and verification aircraft, J-10C (mass-produced in 2013), as well as the J-10 demonstrator, and also the J-10CP ordered by Pakistan.
When purchasing, the Pakistani military requests improvements based on operational needs. For example, when procuring Hangor-class submarines, they required German MTU diesel engines; when acquiring Z-10 ME attack helicopters, they demanded engines capable of high-altitude performance; and when buying the 054AP, they chose specific weapon systems. The 054A is a frigate in the Chinese Navy, designed for anti-submarine and air defense roles. The Pakistani 054AP is a customized version with more comprehensive functions, including anti-submarine, air defense, anti-ship capabilities, and a phased-array radar.
The J-10CP and PL-15E have already proven their value in actual combat, achieving the longest air-to-air kill in aerial warfare history, and the aircraft are relatively inexpensive compared to similar types. The Pakistani military has no reason to stop procurement.
I speculate two possibilities: one is that after the May conflict, the Pakistani military provided feedback on issues or optimization suggestions to Chinese defense companies, which are currently making modifications. This possibility is more likely.
The second is a bolder idea: the current 20 J-10CPs are sufficient to establish air superiority over India. The Pakistani military may be seeking a new aircraft type.
The development of the J-10 models includes the J-10, J-10A, J-10S, J-10B and its thrust-vectoring demonstration and verification aircraft, J-10C (mass-produced in 2013), as well as the J-10 demonstrator, and also the J-10CP ordered by Pakistan.
When purchasing, the Pakistani military requests improvements based on operational needs. For example, when procuring Hangor-class submarines, they required German MTU diesel engines; when acquiring Z-10 ME attack helicopters, they demanded engines capable of high-altitude performance; and when buying the 054AP, they chose specific weapon systems. The 054A is a frigate in the Chinese Navy, designed for anti-submarine and air defense roles. The Pakistani 054AP is a customized version with more comprehensive functions, including anti-submarine, air defense, anti-ship capabilities, and a phased-array radar.
The J-10CP and PL-15E have already proven their value in actual combat, achieving the longest air-to-air kill in aerial warfare history, and the aircraft are relatively inexpensive compared to similar types. The Pakistani military has no reason to stop procurement.
I speculate two possibilities: one is that after the May conflict, the Pakistani military provided feedback on issues or optimization suggestions to Chinese defense companies, which are currently making modifications. This possibility is more likely.
The second is a bolder idea: the current 20 J-10CPs are sufficient to establish air superiority over India. The Pakistani military may be seeking a new aircraft type.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
PAF's ideal scenario would be to get the J-35As and then "sell" the J10CEs(to other J10CE operators) once the J-35A's are here. I don't think PAF wants just 20 of any platform, normally they tend to go up to 100 of any platform they purchase so time will tell but I am certain that PAF wont operate just 20 units. We may see smaller thresholds for stealth aircraft mind you.
The alternative, is that they are waiting on more deliveries or are comfortable as you suggest.
Musharraf went to J 10 Factory and made a conditional deal that Pakistan will only buy if China provides own engine. It took the Chinese very long time to finally make a reliable engine in enough numbers to also cater for the export market
东风夜放花千树
Registered Member
Hahaha, this is just a speculation. What I mean is that the 20 J-10CPs and JF-17s currently equipped by Pakistan are already enough to establish air superiority over India. There's no indication that the J-10CP orders have stopped. Undoubtedly, this is Pakistan's next-generation main fighter. It's more likely that Chinese companies are improving the J-10CP according to the requirements of the Pakistan military.
Pakistan needs to have power comparable to India in order to counter India's aggression. This is unfair to Pakistan because the two countries do not have equal economic strength. The May conflicts demonstrated that Pakistan's outstanding pilots, coupled with advanced fighters, can defeat India with fewer aircraft. Building a small but technically superior force with limited funding is a development path suitable for the Pakistan military.
Before India acquires fifth-generation aircraft, Pakistan has absolute air superiority. If India wants to gain an advantage, it can only do so by purchasing fifth-generation fighters. If India confirms its procurement order, the Pakistan military will need aircraft capable of countering fifth-generation fighters.
This is my second speculation: the reason there’s no news of Pakistan continuing to purchase J-10CPs is because India currently cannot put pressure on Pakistan. The Pakistan military can wait for India's procurement results and then determine the new aircraft procurement plan based on India’s choices. If India purchases fifth-generation fighters, the Pakistan military will procure equivalent aircraft. If India purchases other fighters, Pakistan can continue the J-10CP contract.
This way, Pakistan can preserve funds, on one hand maintaining debt and the economy, and on the other hand, after India acquires new aircraft, Pakistan can continue to maintain its ability to suppress India. This is called the 'advantage of late development.'
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