PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Oscar]

We’re in the wrong thread again.

It takes MINIMAL effort to say - not replying here - let’s go to the right thread!

Mucho gracias

 

[Ak01]

Yes, I do believe that. Indian goals were to enter Pakistani airspace and shoot some PAF jets. Why were they hanging out for an hour if goal was to hit targets to please their population?

Then you must have been asleep.

India said it struck nine "terrorist infrastructure" sites, some of them linked to an attack by Islamist militants that killed 25 Hindu tourists and one local in Indian Kashmir last month.

Let me break it down for you:

-objective
strike sites they believe we're linked to terrorist orgs.
-result
struck...

-objective, achieved.

Can you tell me if the IAFs goal was to enter Pakistani airspace, why theyd launch salvos of BrahMos then lol. The cope here is getting a bit pathetic. Why we refuse to just accept and improve on our shortfalls is beyond me.

Bare in mind, we lost 40 civillians. All we did was 'show restraint'... clearly, India=Deterred.

Heck, if shooting down a jet means deterrence achieved, why was it after balakot India was able to strike pak and pak ONCE AGAIN was caught with its pants down, springing into action ONLY after its territory was struck. Strange deterrence there mate...

I don't know about nuclear saber rattling but what is the evidence that we are unable to use cruise missiles? If we can use CM-400 which is definitely less in numbers than indigenous cruise missiles, I could have easily used them if there was a need.

If the PAF wants more CM400AKG's, it phones up the OEM, puts in an order.

If the PAF wants more Ra'ads, it must setup a shell to import components, then smuggle them into Pak, then assemble them, then test, certify and deliver. Can you tell me which one sounds easier?

Afghanistan can't even mount a single conventional attack and it is false equivalence because sub-conventional warfare is a totally different ballgame.

Erm, you can replace Afghanistan with whoever you want, Iran, et al, point doesnt change.

It seems you have some source inside NCA but I am not privy to those meetings and don't know anything about a nuclear threat. Rather, Indian claims show otherwise i.e. Pakistan wasn't ready to use nuclear option.

Is that so lol... is that why our favourite source trump sahib harped on and on about preventing a nuclear war?

Heck, wanna pull up this same argument against Khalid Kidwai? He also said that it was our nuclear arsenal that kept India in check... do you wanna ask him about his sources inside the NCA too? https://www.dawn.com/news/1942537

Here we go again about Indians can hit us but we were unable to hit India. I am the center of universe and it is government's duty to show me proof or otherwise I will not believe that Indians were forced for a cease fire.

Well, in this case we should also believe that Pakistan is capable of producing a wholly indigenous FGFA. Khwaja asif also claimed we captured indian personnel, tarar claimed we captured an indian border post, etc etc. Are we still serving them tea?

Palestinian cause has nothing to do with all this. That conflict has been going on before May and all the state leaders other than USA (like central Asian and Indonesia) don't have a direct role in that conflict.

Bruh, Indonesia and Pakistan are both slated to be a part of the Gaza stabilisation force...

I am happy with my delusions if that means Indians will stay in their socks. As I said before, if we are underestimating them, it is not you or me who is going to pay the price. The people who face the threat head on do their homework more thoroughly instead of only relying on satellite imagery.

Really pathetic attempt at a jab there mate, your attempt at being condescending there does nothing to deflect the stereotype that ex servicemen can be pompous pricks who will do nothing but blindly sip the koolaid of their superiors.

Lastly, the list of funerals in India is far longer than Pakistan. If they are not honoring their dead and lying about cause of death, it doesn't mean I haven't avenged my martyrs. Pakistan is a military peer competitor to India because Indians couldn't prove Pakistan is their Gaza. A limited conflict is only option between two nuclear powers and an all out war to satisfy some people will lead to death of a billion people.

Of course mate, you personally inspected the coffins of their dead.

Its a pathetic attempt at coping, we lost 40 people, plus servicemen, yet all you're concerned about is scoring hits and internet points. The situation is dire, and its the likes of yourself that allow it to get worse...

 

[Ak01]

We’re in the wrong thread again.

It takes MINIMAL effort to say - not replying here - let’s go to the right thread!

Mucho gracias

roger, will respond on the thread next

 

[AeronautIR]

sorry but literally in what world...

If anything was seen, it was that Pakistans conventional deterrence failed...heck, even its nuclear deterrence failed.

India came in, launched strikes on civillian targets, for which they lost a few jets, but overwhelmingly realised pakistan was spineless and unable to deal any damage back. They know they can do this over, and over again, and us on the other hand, we will launch a couple of MLRS for domestic consumption, fabricate some stories and give our population a lollipop.

If you think this was a success on our part, im guessing you can probably spin 71' into a success too. Think about it, dhaka is the third most polluted city in the world... by losing it in '71, we won because we dont have to deal with its pollution.

We took widespread hits to our airfields, to our civillian infrastructure and we lost men. We lost the ability to deter India conventionally and on the nuclear front. Our response was weak and did NO damage in any meaningful capacity. The Indians walked away knowing we can basically do whatever and Pakistan is so cucked they wont be able to hit back.

We could not even launch whole MLRS salvo's for god sake. We did not launch a single cruise missile, which we all know we just dont have enough of. Pakistan is in a dire position and you all are here spinning rumours into a victory lol. God help us if this mindset is instilled into the brass too...which i fear it may be

Was the number of CM-400 more or less than cruise missiles? I am unable to understand how you have deduced the reason for not using them is less numbers.

With this bleak picture, I must thank Indians for their kindness. If I was Modi, I wouldn't have stopped after such poor performance of Pakistan. They already said we called the Pakistani nuclear bluff. And yet, they still agreed to the cease fire even with no damage to their bases.

You don't have to worry about Pakistan because even though you don't believe in our capability, you must trust the Indian mindset of stopping the conflict after watching Pakistan's weak response with zero damages.
Thank you India.

 

[Ak01]

Was the number of CM-400 more or less than cruise missiles? I am unable to understand how you have deduced the reason for not using them is less numbers.

With this bleak picture, I must thank Indians for their kindness. If I was Modi, I wouldn't have stopped after such poor performance of Pakistan. They already said we called the Pakistani nuclear bluff. And yet, they still agreed to the cease fire even with no damage to their bases.

You don't have to worry about Pakistan because even though you don't believe in our capability, you must trust the Indian mindset of stopping the conflict after watching Pakistan's weak response with zero damages.
Thank you India.

 

[AeronautIR]

View attachment 167283

relax, you can always have the satisfaction of saying "I told you so" if Indians do some actual damage to us in future. Till then, no need to inflate the threat out of proportion.
They are a far bigger country and yet can't destroy a single PAF aircraft, not in air or ground. No need to self-flagellate because it seems improbable that we got the better of Indians.
And just a suggestion for Indians: continue the fight next time if you are winning.

 

[AeronautIR]

Then you must have been asleep.

India said it struck nine "terrorist infrastructure" sites, some of them linked to an attack by Islamist militants that killed 25 Hindu tourists and one local in Indian Kashmir last month.

Let me break it down for you:

-objective
strike sites they believe we're linked to terrorist orgs.
-result
struck...

-objective, achieved.

Can you tell me if the IAFs goal was to enter Pakistani airspace, why theyd launch salvos of BrahMos then lol. The cope here is getting a bit pathetic. Why we refuse to just accept and improve on our shortfalls is beyond me.

Bare in mind, we lost 40 civillians. All we did was 'show restraint'... clearly, India=Deterred.

Heck, if shooting down a jet means deterrence achieved, why was it after balakot India was able to strike pak and pak ONCE AGAIN was caught with its pants down, springing into action ONLY after its territory was struck. Strange deterrence there mate...



If the PAF wants more CM400AKG's, it phones up the OEM, puts in an order.

If the PAF wants more Ra'ads, it must setup a shell to import components, then smuggle them into Pak, then assemble them, then test, certify and deliver. Can you tell me which one sounds easier?


Erm, you can replace Afghanistan with whoever you want, Iran, et al, point doesnt change.


Is that so lol... is that why our favourite source trump sahib harped on and on about preventing a nuclear war?

Heck, wanna pull up this same argument against Khalid Kidwai? He also said that it was our nuclear arsenal that kept India in check... do you wanna ask him about his sources inside the NCA too? https://www.dawn.com/news/1942537


Well, in this case we should also believe that Pakistan is capable of producing a wholly indigenous FGFA. Khwaja asif also claimed we captured indian personnel, tarar claimed we captured an indian border post, etc etc. Are we still serving them tea?


Bruh, Indonesia and Pakistan are both slated to be a part of the Gaza stabilisation force...


Really pathetic attempt at a jab there mate, your attempt at being condescending there does nothing to deflect the stereotype that ex servicemen can be pompous pricks who will do nothing but blindly sip the koolaid of their superiors.

Of course mate, you personally inspected the coffins of their dead.

Its a pathetic attempt at coping, we lost 40 people, plus servicemen, yet all you're concerned about is scoring hits and internet points. The situation is dire, and its the likes of yourself that allow it to get worse...


View attachment 167281

Let's go to other thread and then you can tell me all about those terrorist camps that were hit in first 2 minutes and yet the fight continued for 50 more minutes even after accomplishment of mission.

You must give me that top level source before more snide remarks that tells you CM-400 is just a phone call away but we can't produce cruise missiles in years.

And situation is not dire because you say so. Tone down the hyperbole and let's continue it in the right thread.

PS: Is Gen Khalid Kidwai also an ex servicemen pompous prick or you just resort to name calling to those who disagree with your baseless ranting? Have you read the last paragraph of this article about Indian failure in achieving objectives?
And If I was trying to be condescending, would have used language like you are using. I simply meant that a pilot will not blindly fly to Adampur after sipping koolaid from superiors with copium of destroyed S-400.

 

[Fatman17]

"Importantly, the report confirms that Pakistan is the only country to which China has exported the J-10C. As of May 2025, China had delivered 20 J-10C aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force under two orders placed since 2020, with total orders amounting to 36 aircraft".

Latest Pentagon report

 

[Vapnope]

16 more are on order as per pentagon report.
China Supplied 20 J-10C Jets to Pakistan: Pentagon Report https://share.google/HgD3yj9JaqV0jJ8k8

Chances of ordering more? @Oscar @Ak01 @Par 5

 

[Par 5]

16 more are on order as per pentagon report.
China Supplied 20 J-10C Jets to Pakistan: Pentagon Report https://share.google/HgD3yj9JaqV0jJ8k8

Chances of ordering more? @Oscar @Ak01 @Par 5

For now, the 36 J-10C will be enough. The next incoming batch to PAF will be of the J-35 Fifth Gen aircraft by Q3 2026. PAF pilots are currently in PRC getting the required training for the J-35 from PLAAF

 

[Oscar]

16 more are on order as per pentagon report.
China Supplied 20 J-10C Jets to Pakistan: Pentagon Report https://share.google/HgD3yj9JaqV0jJ8k8

Chances of ordering more? @Oscar @Ak01 @Par 5

Makes sense
20 was an odd number for 1 squadron although you have super squadrons of Mirages (and reportedly one of JF-17)

 

[PakShaheen_79]

I already said these IR concepts are subjective and I can share literature with you that doesn't define deterrence in this way. There was complete mobilization in 2001 and many Indian soldiers died during the movement. India learned from those mistakes and just used air force with stand-off weapons in 2019 and 2025. There is simply no comparison.

If you think deterrence means that India will not lob few bombs to copy Israel Air force, that is not a realistic expectation. They will repeat it in future too by use of airpower.

Deterrence means that you deny them from achieving their goals and then inflict punishment to bring them on table for cease fire. We should be their equal in economy and resources before even thinking about the kind of deterrence you have mentioned.

Indian soliders died in 2001 due to accidents not fighting. There was no exchang of fire during that stand-off. Yes, India learned from its mistake but as far as employement of aerial power is concerned, Indians had done that too in Kargil in 1999. 2001 stand-off was land forces mobalization and thankfully it didn't escalated because PAF was on its weakest during those time due to Pressler Amendments and its own inability ot acquire Mirage-2000s during 1990s.

It is not about lobbing few bombs. It is about enemy hitting your airbases with pinpoint accuracy fully knowing that you don't have any system capable of doing the same to his infrastructure. The establishment of Rocket Force Command itself is a clear testimony of this fact. We were not ready to compete India in SOW capability and we have still a lots of ground to cover in that domain. (And since day 1 this has been the core argument from myside).

Do you know what's the problematic part of this concept of deterrence is? It simply means India will always have the advantage of element of surprise and Pakistan will always be on reactionary side. This time we had Pl-15 advantage in the air next time it will not be there. Plus see what happened once IAF realized their initial miscalculation about range of PL-15. They played on their strength from 8 May onwards. Pakistan would have been in far better position in term of establishing deterrence if offramp accepted on the morning of 7th May after destroying IAF's myth and confidence both. What we did? We allowed enemy to rethink, evaluate, and re-launch! and result is now we are debating why there is no proof of any Pakistani strike in India. Why? Because like IAF, PAF (or Pakistan Army) miscalculated ... Not only our own weapons strength but also Indian integrated layered AD systems. Despite taking beating in the air, IAF was able to inflict damages to PAF infrastrcture that it couldn't in full blown wars of 65 and 71 despite having much greater numerical superiority. Why? Because during peace time, India made clear headed aggressive moves establishing BrahMos JV with Russia. Acquiring SCALP, HAMMER type weapons to deter H2/H4 munitions from PAF side. After ROSE project completion in early 2000's there have been no concentrated efforts on Pakistani side to negate IAF the advantage of all above mentioned systems which it acquired during last 2 decades and then came 9th May and we witnessed a mashroom of fireball on Nur Khan base. PAF focused more on getting air surpriroty via establishing BVR dominance and Netcentric Multi Domain ops which itself is remarkable but it left a gap. The real purpose of any air force is NOT defending skies (Air power theory) but to decimate enemy forces on ground. Air combat is a byproduct of this primary goal. PAF will have to work hard on negating IAF's advantage through qualitatively better SOW weapons and you will see complete deterrence in play as I mentioned above. Deterrence failed in 2025 after hitting IAF in 2019 because we couldn't do strategic communication right via establishing and showcasing our prowess in SOW/Interdiction missions. This failure of deterrence will continue as long as we allow that gap to remain there!!

 

[Falcon26]

Indian soliders died in 2001 due to accidents not fighting. There was no exchang of fire during that stand-off. Yes, India learned from its mistake but as far as employement of aerial power is concerned, Indians had done that too in Kargil in 1999. 2001 stand-off was land forces mobalization and thankfully it didn't escalated because PAF was on its weakest during those time due to Pressler Amendments and its own inability ot acquire Mirage-2000s during 1990s.

It is not about lobbing few bombs. It is about enemy hitting your airbases with pinpoint accuracy fully knowing that you don't have any system capable of doing the same to his infrastructure. The establishment of Rocket Force Command itself is a clear testimony of this fact. We were not ready to compete India in SOW capability and we have still a lots of ground to cover in that domain. (And since day 1 this has been the core argument from myside).

Do you know what's the problematic part of this concept of deterrence is? It simply means India will always have the advantage of element of surprise and Pakistan will always be on reactionary side. This time we had Pl-15 advantage in the air next time it will not be there. Plus see what happened once IAF realized their initial miscalculation about range of PL-15. They played on their strength from 8 May onwards. Pakistan would have been in far better position in term of establishing deterrence if offramp accepted on the morning of 7th May after destroying IAF's myth and confidence both. What we did? We allowed enemy to rethink, evaluate, and re-launch! and result is now we are debating why there is no proof of any Pakistani strike in India. Why? Because like IAF, PAF (or Pakistan Army) miscalculated ... Not only our own weapons strength but also Indian integrated layered AD systems. Despite taking beating in the air, IAF was able to inflict damages to PAF infrastrcture that it couldn't in full blown wars of 65 and 71 despite having much greater numerical superiority. Why? Because during peace time, India made clear headed aggressive moves establishing BrahMos JV with Russia. Acquiring SCALP, HAMMER type weapons to deter H2/H4 munitions from PAF side. After ROSE project completion in early 2000's there have been no concentrated efforts on Pakistani side to negate IAF the advantage of all above mentioned systems which it acquired during last 2 decades and then came 9th May and we witnessed a mashroom of fireball on Nur Khan base. PAF focused more on getting air surpriroty via establishing BVR dominance and Netcentric Multi Domain ops which itself is remarkable but it left a gap. The real purpose of any air force is NOT defending skies (Air power theory) but to decimate enemy forces on ground. Air combat is a byproduct of this primary goal. PAF will have to work hard on negating IAF's advantage through qualitatively better SOW weapons and you will see complete deterrence in play as I mentioned above. Deterrence failed in 2025 after hitting IAF in 2019 because we couldn't do strategic communication right via establishing and showcasing our prowess in SOW/Interdiction missions. This failure of deterrence will continue as long as we remain that gap there!!

The decision to call it enough and celebrate after the air battle on May 7th was not a PAF decision. It was a GHQ decision.

As you have said, throughout the conflict and over the years, India has been the aggressive party routinely pushing the envelope while GHQ and the field marshal have been perfecting a doctrine of “maturity and restraint”

A small country can not fight a war with self-imposed limitations while the bigger party is aggressive and bloodthirsty. The message you send is not one of restraint but one of weakness. There’s been a remarkable similarity between GHQ conduct post May 7th and Iranian clerics insistence that they were exercising restraint even as the Israelis dismantled their nuclear and missile infrastructure.

It’s unfortunate that there’s no discussion on the conduct of GHQ on May 8 and 9. Two full days when the IAF was grounded and while India continued brazen missile and drone strikes on Pakistan which crescendoed to the mayhem we saw on May 10th. India simply saw GHQ’s none response to the missile and drone provocations, read it as a weakness and decided to up the ante and exacted the massive PR price on Pakistan on May 10th in which visuals of frontline PAF bases on fire become the leading headline.

GHQ and the army generals’ “maturity and restraints” makes future Indian attacks more likely, not less. And the next attacks will be complete and total missile strikes on major targets in Pakistan.

Weakness and cowardice always invites aggression. Not peace. This is the basic summary of world history.

 

[hasssanali8998]

It’s unfortunate that there’s no discussion on the conduct of GHQ on May 8 and 9

there is , forget about India we are even showing restraint to Afghanistan even when we are loosing dozens of soldiers every week .

 

[Michael]

16 more are on order as per pentagon report.
China Supplied 20 J-10C Jets to Pakistan: Pentagon Report https://share.google/HgD3yj9JaqV0jJ8k8

Chances of ordering more? @Oscar @Ak01 @Par 5

Although I predicted from the outset that "many Pakistanis would over-interpret this report" and issued a warning, you continued with this behavior...

This report is nothing more than a child's toy.