PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[amuqeetk]

Are you sure? You are correct, we rarely see a J-10C with a targeting pod and precision guided munitions like LGBs, but we know a few. IMO the J-10C is a full multirole fighter, there is no doubt about this,

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You can't compare like this, it's unfair. The multi-function capability of J10C can only be compared with foreign competitor F16 (single engine high thrust) or domestic competitor J16, we all know the comparison results.

J10C abdominal pylon can not carry medium-range ammunition, which is a great defect, because this will affect the mounting of the auxiliary oil tank. Moreover, the J10C design is not compact, and the height difference between canard and wing is very large, the canard wing has a large area, the wing sweep angle is also large. And it uses abdominal air intake. Of course, this will make J10C intake efficiency high and improve engine efficiency at high angle of attack, but it also leads to the increase of aircraft frontal projection and the increase of flight resistance at supersonic speed, that is also the reason why the early model of F16 let the pilot drive half lying down. Therefore, the max-range of J10C is affected. Considering the problem of J10C mounting auxiliary oil tank, its multifunction ability will certainly be affected. J10C Ground Weapons usually rely on two KD88S, plus the guidance pod and 3 auxiliary fuel tanks, there are only abdominal pylons left, but I haven't seen J10C carry more than 500kg weapons on abdominal pylons. How can we be satisfied with so few ground weapons?

And I don't like J10C using YJ91 for anti radar warfare. Radar defense is usually very weak, why use supersonic missiles? Such excessive killing results in that J10C can only carry two YJ91.

Therefore, I don't think countries with limited budgets will consider using J10C. Who would like a fighter that can only be used in air combat? J10c relies heavily on the Chinese combat system. It was originally designed for the Chinese air force, while the F16 was designed for the world market. PAF needs to make a lot of efforts to integrate such an aircraft into Pakistan's combat system.

 

[amuqeetk]

Air to ground/sea surface configuration with laser guided bombs and AGM.





Air-to-air missiles deployed may include short-range air-to-air missiles such as the PL-8 and PL-10 (on J-10C), medium-range radar-guided air-to-air missiles such as the PL-12 and PL-15 (on J-10C), unguided and precision guided munitions such as laser-guided bombs, air-to-surface missile such as KD-88,[35] anti-ship missiles such as the YJ-91A,[35] and anti-radiation missiles such as the YJ-91.[35]

 

[amuqeetk]

Credits:

Polestar 2​

Pakistan armed forces has already signed up for China beidou 3 gps system. Precisely, Pakistan economy running on IT sector is a big mistakes as manufacturing shall grap a bigger shares with a huge young population. Manufacturing feed most mouth, not IT white collar jobs. Pakistan biggest importer are China and most are essential items and not luxury goods. It is Chinese low price machinery and commodities that keep Pakistan inflation much lower, business competitive.

PAF is switching from F-16 to J-10. Same as army and navy using almost all Chinese weaponery.

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

Credit :

tphuang​

It's hard to see China exporting J-10 to anyone else in the near future for a number of reasons. First of all, China already has an export oriented aircraft in JF-17. Pakistan have really done a great job of working with China to develop this aircraft to be a capable aircraft. It has also done a great job of helping to promote this aircraft. You have all the traditional US allies that is or will be F-35 users. You have all the other users of 4+ generation aircraft that would have no reason to buy J-10s. For vast majority of the remaining countries, JF-17 probably fills all of their need. Now, this will change in the next generation when J-31/35 will likely be the most capable and stealthy non-American fighter jet available for purchase. That's probably only 8 years away. I don't see China finding another suitable export partner for J-10 before that. Maybe Iran? But I don't know if that's a good idea.

The other area I want to address is multi-role capabilities of J-10. It has not been used as a multi-role aircraft within PLAAF due to the presence of flankers. You simply can't carry as much fuel or weapon on a J-10 as J-16. J-16 can also carry more powerful radar and EW suites and pods than j-10. However, there is nothing fundamentally preventing it from a multi-role aircraft within PAF. It is the same size as F-16 and larger than JF-17. It has a more powerful engine than both F-16 and JF-17, so can carry more fuel and weaponry. With its higher thrust engine, it can carry more powerful EW suite and have better situation better than F-16 and JF-17. Keep in mind that F-16 Block 50 is using 90s era avionics at this point, so cannot be as survivable going into a well defended air space as J-10C. On top of that, US has also placed stringent usage requirement on PAF F-16s. J-10 will also always have an advantage over JF-17 in survivability, range and payload due to its larger airframe, better wing loading, better T/W ratio and more powerful engine. Remember, China is continuously upgrading WS-10 series due to J-20 requirements. The same level of investment simply does not exist for RD-93s.

Again, PAF will get an initial batch of J-10Cs which will probably be almost the same as the ones PLAAF has. If it likes the aircraft, then it can work with CAC to produce a more multi-role variant that uses a more powerful engine and a more multi-role radar. Of course, all of this depends on how PAF views the aircraft and how much it's willing to spend to develop additional capabilities.

Long term, why would PAF keep F-16s around if it can get J-31/35 in 8 to 10 years? The majority of them are already 35 to 40 years old. They are unlikely to be upgraded and can only used in ways approved by the American government. At some point, PAF needs to move on from F-16. That's not a bad thing unless you think America will sell PAF F-35s.

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

Confirmation from Chengdu.

https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/1483674723372331009?s=20

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

 

[amuqeetk]

• Jan 19, 2022

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• #1,801

Hmm?!! :what: ... but even if I agree, that CAC had a design "up its sleeve", such a design to complete will take vast amount of resources and if it is - like you say - "no project Azm" - then I see no chance for yet another fifth generation type! Anyway ... most interesting.

It would and most importantly - it would not be a Pakistan only aircraft. My guess based on the horse’s mouth statement was that there perhaps was a CAC “Checkmate” type project that either was shelved or not prioritized. Bear in mind there has been a permanent Pakistani presence at CAC since 2002 varying in size and role over the years.

Either way, 2011 was ten years ago and at that time Pakistan barely could afford the loan interest payments on JF-17(something I like to repeat as reference to the cancerous government at that time). Today things are fairly different with a revised ASR.

that would mean pakistan is shown some on-paper design and if PAF wanted it, pakistan would have to financing the entire mystery chengdu project by itself. i don't see that as much of an option especially as you know, pakistan currently does not have that kind of money and there is no way chengdu finished the design and didn't even try to promote it for sale. I also dont see it being any kind of collaboration where china finances 50%+ of the costs, that boat has sailed with the FC31/J35.

Please see above and yes - financing terms from China have gotten stricter as well. When the first FC-20(J-10AE) was proposed to Pakistan China was willing to provide ridiculously favorable terms similar to those for the JF-17 but that wouldn’t include costs PAF would have to bear apart from flyaway and weapons which post 2005 earthquake and then 2008 crash it could not afford.

But Isn't Project Azm a wider project that includes Fighter Jets, drones , SAM's and electronic warfare systems?

Yes - but that didn’t exist 10 years ago. It was just a PAF requirement for a 5th generation aircraft

 

[amuqeetk]

Credits:The eagle
People needs to understand that PAF is regarded as a top class fighting force highly disciplined and at par with any modern force out there despite of limited resources/options. In no way, any one should have a doubt on this. Even though, I didn't acknowledged neither claimed anything on AL-31F but one has to keep in mind that PAF is not going to compromise. That being said, whether AL-31F or WS-10; the top notch will be chosen by blue boys. IF J-10CP is here, it is going to be the spear head for PAF and in that area, there is no other option but to get the best out of it. I will hold down myself till the birds lands. We will then discuss as how, when it happened---- who was in China since when and in-fact how many of us (almost 6 members) knew from early 2019 or even before that.

I acknowledge & agree what @SQ8 used to say that any information which is for personal delight, shouldn't come to the internet unless Source say so. Secondly, any responsible person having information on any such topic, wouldn't compromise the OPSEC for few brownie points. Lastly, we all need to act responsibly. Either the J-10 or as I used to say, not only J-10 but a lot coming; means it is a huge responsibility to keep things close to your chest until the time comes.

Getting back to the topic; AL-31F has its own advantages and PAF sees that close coordination with big wigs for the future of Pakistan Defence Industries. A lot has been settled and clarified between Pakistan-Russia and I wouldn't shy to accept that thanks to China for playing a bigger role in this regard. This is same as like how Pakistan played a bigger role to clear the path for Chinese reaching the Gulf Defence Industry.

Currently, whatever being said on internet and as revealed by officials through different channels; is merely the tip of iceberg. Having said that, if even 40% of the desired modernization is revealed; I bet people will remain in shock for at-least couple of weeks if not a month.

Have you ever seen me opposing particular platform or even trying to say that so & so person is making such a stupid claim that if J-15 or J-16 or any Flanker is coming? I bet you wouldn't find me seriously doing so. You know why? I do not look at merely a platform or an opinion of someone wishing PAF to have a flanker. What interests me, is the case of seeing far beyond just a platform or an equipment. I am more interested into things impacting Country's Defence in long future.

I believe that any professional force like PAF just do not buy an equipment to live through the day and survive for tomorrow. You might not believe but PAF plans for 30+ years to the least if anything is procured or inducted into the active operations. By that logic & tactics; one can easily understand that which tech might get interest of PAF and how come the same can benefit Defence of the Country by any means or different ways. While pointing to something being interested to PAF; just pay close attention to the benefits and future lies ahead in-form of that particular platform/equipment, people will get the idea as how PAF or PN or PA is planning. How beneficial it is and how this is going to support in very long run.

If we are talking about AL-31F engine with J-10C for PAF; I wouldn't deny that plainly rather be looking at AZM becoming reality, an NGF becomes the reality and taking shape, a defence industry of Pakistan moving forward and all these factors will be combined with the help of Friends indeed. PAF may not be bringing the AL-31F or WS-10 merely for the sake of it. Trust me. It has more to do with future tech, development and progress being made to meet with modern warfare challenges. I have no doubt that Russia, China & Turkiye are already helping in different areas and the future path has been set.

Unfortunately, public denial is because of an ill painted picture of Pakistan. Don't take me wrong (everyone) but not everyone has to stomach to digest what PAF, PN or PA has been up-to. Unfortunately, most of us never tried to look at the right side of the picture but this is us keep asking for everything on platter and being spoon fed. I am not denying the fact of OpSec and secrecy level being maintained by Pakistan or China as everyone does so but did everyone belittle the particular nation or undermine them as if their defence capability is nothing at par in modern times. Surprisingly, no one ever could get the idea as how Pakistan has been the center of power struggle in the region and plays a major role to set rules. No one ever could look at things that Pakistan did. It is a dilemma but a reality since majority believes in the narrative being pushed by leading or major media outlets. There is a less of interest by the people to dig deeper and look at the things as they are instead of how they tell us to believe.

The reason as of the same proven fact that PAF do not race into quantity with the rival but always comes ahead of quality and delivering the result. This is all about to control the end game.