PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Haji Thanos]

Maybe it is a language issue but what‘s your point?

He made a statement like „the sky is green“ and I asked why he thinks so since any evidence we have it is NOT green and then he replies in a long post that „this and that and noting specific!“

All I miss are examples why he initially thinks the „J10C is turning out to be a game changer across the globe“ and kindly asked in return?

Why are you stepping into this discussion and a most offensive or even insulting tone instead of explaining why my concern may be wrong?

good sir I didnt mean to offend u in any way
i just asked a simple question and i specifically mentioned "apart from everything"
if u felt uncomfortable due to my question u could have said so that u dont wanna answer
or if u did answered it yes or no
still my Q remains

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[Oscar]

Storm in a teacup - but I think the whole “game changer” perception is a mix of subjective gauge and waxed praise.

Does the J-10C change the game for Pakistan?
Yes - it provides a fairly potent capability with the most advanced avionics fit in the fleet coupled with METHODS of sensor fusion and data gathered which other assets cannot match in accuracy, precision nor volume.

And
While its impact is in single digit percentages in terms of the overall change planned by the PAF - the more rapid change it brought in terms of warfighting techniques is game changing compared to the slower pace but broader impact of other programs in progress.


Is it game changing as a aerial threat to Pakistan’s foes? No - it puts a ding in terms of BVR edge but it’s what is happening fleetwide to the PAF that has more impact. If it was to change the game it would be 80 aircraft landed that would cause much more consternation (isnt it already?)

Does it represent some game changing product from China?
Not really - it uses tech from the J-20 - which changed the game - but a lot of that tech and more advanced aspects of it now percolate across PLAAF and PLAN fleets.

Does it change the game from an export market perspective?

Not really - The eurocanards are better all round aircraft and the potential buyers that can pony up the amount for the J-10C either are tied back by western interests or China cannot sell to them for sanctions sake.

So really - it comes down to how you measure things rather than saying “Pakistan is in the top ten most powerful airforces list” type of juvenile nonsense

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Deino, why don't you just ignore posts like that instead of getting yourself worked up? You can clearly see it's not worth wasting your time or energy on.

He's a wise teacher on aviation so let him teach.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Announcing arms deals is with the consent of the seller and buyer, and most Chinese weapons only appear in war inspections. Egypt has not announced any arms deal with China except for the K-8E tender since 1999. You are ignoring the nature of contracts between Egypt and China. I do not benefit from signing arms deals between Egypt and China. The matters are related to negotiations and numerous visits that have taken place since 2022 between Egypt and China. Most of the eastern arms deals are happening without announcement, and even some contracts with France and Italy are not announced. I am in Egypt, monitoring the visits that take place and what results from them. Things in Egypt are according to armament plans and military councils. There are indicators that China is accelerating in improving the capabilities of the J-10 aircraft, although its military demands for the aircraft are almost complete. Adding new ammunition, weapons packages, and testing other engines with higher capabilities is not related to Chinese demands, but to the demands of international customers. There are also significant indicators of growing relations between Egypt and China. More than 6 Chinese car brands have moved to production in Egypt. The Nasr City market has an initial production volume of 250,000 cars, in addition to the production of 6 million home appliances in the same year, Nasr and more than 5 mobile phones and investments in the iron and steel, clothing and chemical industries from China. The volume of Chinese investments in Egypt has grown in 4 months by an increase of about 8 billion dollars, not only because of the American and European protectionist measures on Chinese industry and exports. China has placed Egypt among 5 countries that produce within it for export, not only economic relations, but within a broader and larger cooperation program. The most important point, as we explained previously, is that Egypt has military forces and is heading towards the best according to its needs. The fact that the reports that announced that Nasr rejected Western and Russian fighters and headed to China are not all press reports or amateurs as you think. What makes Egypt head towards the company is the company's ability to produce aircraft faster than the West, thus meeting Egyptian demands at the appropriate times for Egypt. The fact that fighters have not arrived in Egypt so far is a simple matter. Egypt has requested updates and modifications to the aircraft, which makes there a volume of updates carried out by the Chinese side according to Egyptian demands, so Egypt will not hide the aircraft Rather, it is only announced at appropriate times for it and also after the arrival of the aircraft. However, if the matter is related to a personal opinion, I would have preferred that Egypt request an additional batch of MIG-35 fighters, but the Russians failed to develop the radars at the appropriate time for Egypt, so the Russian aircraft will not be ready until after 2027 with a radar with the required detection range and other modifications. Therefore, Egypt’s direction towards China is not so much the result of preference, but rather of China’s readiness and ability to develop Egyptian demands more quickly.

Why would Egypt buy J-10Cs shortly after purchasing Rafales? The deliveries are expected to begin this year.

To throw in the J-10C in arguments is like trying to cover up the fact that Egypt chose Rafales over J-10Cs.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Storm in a teacup - but I think the whole “game changer” perception is a mix of subjective gauge and waxed praise.

Does the J-10C change the game for Pakistan?
Yes - it provides a fairly potent capability with the most advanced avionics fit in the fleet coupled with METHODS of sensor fusion and data gathered which other assets cannot match in accuracy, precision nor volume.

And
While its impact is in single digit percentages in terms of the overall change planned by the PAF - the more rapid change it brought in terms of warfighting techniques is game changing compared to the slower pace but broader impact of other programs in progress.


Is it game changing as a aerial threat to Pakistan’s foes? No - it puts a ding in terms of BVR edge but it’s what is happening fleetwide to the PAF that has more impact. If it was to change the game it would be 80 aircraft landed that would cause much more consternation (isnt it already?)

Does it represent some game changing product from China?
Not really - it uses tech from the J-20 - which changed the game - but a lot of that tech and more advanced aspects of it now percolate across PLAAF and PLAN fleets.

Does it change the game from an export market perspective?

Not really - The eurocanards are better all round aircraft and the potential buyers that can pony up the amount for the J-10C either are tied back by western interests or China cannot sell to them for sanctions sake.

So really - it comes down to how you measure things rather than saying “Pakistan is in the top ten most powerful airforces list” type of juvenile nonsense

The most "game changing" that the J-10Cs have done in the region is to abruptly conclude the crazy hysteria and the celebrity like arrival of Rafales in the region.

 

[studsmart]

Storm in a teacup - but I think the whole “game changer” perception is a mix of subjective gauge and waxed praise.

Does the J-10C change the game for Pakistan?
Yes - it provides a fairly potent capability with the most advanced avionics fit in the fleet coupled with METHODS of sensor fusion and data gathered which other assets cannot match in accuracy, precision nor volume.

And
While its impact is in single digit percentages in terms of the overall change planned by the PAF - the more rapid change it brought in terms of warfighting techniques is game changing compared to the slower pace but broader impact of other programs in progress.


Is it game changing as a aerial threat to Pakistan’s foes? No - it puts a ding in terms of BVR edge but it’s what is happening fleetwide to the PAF that has more impact. If it was to change the game it would be 80 aircraft landed that would cause much more consternation (isnt it already?)

Does it represent some game changing product from China?
Not really - it uses tech from the J-20 - which changed the game - but a lot of that tech and more advanced aspects of it now percolate across PLAAF and PLAN fleets.

Does it change the game from an export market perspective?

Not really - The eurocanards are better all round aircraft and the potential buyers that can pony up the amount for the J-10C either are tied back by western interests or China cannot sell to them for sanctions sake.

So really - it comes down to how you measure things rather than saying “Pakistan is in the top ten most powerful airforces list” type of juvenile nonsense

very well said

It is also a game changer because it makes PAF consider options beyond BLK70. Additionally, I believe that because of J10C, PFX alpha, a JF17 4.5+ gen fighter, has been evolved/ developed.

Currently, the J10C is not China's top fighter, but in Pakistan and PAF-IAF scenarios, it is considered the best option. This is similar to Oscar's statement.

 

[thereader]

On another thought, for countries who are denied AESA and BVR combos "f16 + aim120" or "rafale + meteor". They get offers of "J10c + pl-15". That would change the game dramatically.

 

[studsmart]

On another thought, for countries who are denied AESA and BVR combos "f16 + aim120" or "rafale + meteor". They get offers of "J10c + pl-15". That would change the game dramatically.

J10c plus pl15 combo really out shine europe and match blk70 f16 with 120c8. A good option with countries can't access western cutting edge. With pl17 news on j10c really outshines every non 5th generation fighter

 

[Venom]

Storm in a teacup - but I think the whole “game changer” perception is a mix of subjective gauge and waxed praise.

Does the J-10C change the game for Pakistan?
Yes - it provides a fairly potent capability with the most advanced avionics fit in the fleet coupled with METHODS of sensor fusion and data gathered which other assets cannot match in accuracy, precision nor volume.

And
While its impact is in single digit percentages in terms of the overall change planned by the PAF - the more rapid change it brought in terms of warfighting techniques is game changing compared to the slower pace but broader impact of other programs in progress.


Is it game changing as a aerial threat to Pakistan’s foes? No - it puts a ding in terms of BVR edge but it’s what is happening fleetwide to the PAF that has more impact. If it was to change the game it would be 80 aircraft landed that would cause much more consternation (isnt it already?)

Does it represent some game changing product from China?
Not really - it uses tech from the J-20 - which changed the game - but a lot of that tech and more advanced aspects of it now percolate across PLAAF and PLAN fleets.

Does it change the game from an export market perspective?

Not really - The eurocanards are better all round aircraft and the potential buyers that can pony up the amount for the J-10C either are tied back by western interests or China cannot sell to them for sanctions sake.

So really - it comes down to how you measure things rather than saying “Pakistan is in the top ten most powerful airforces list” type of juvenile nonsense

So is it fair to say that PAF J10s are its most capable multirole fighter aircraft and even better than block 52s overall. Does it provide the PAF the same edge as Rafale does for IAF or do we really need the j35s to surpass IAF?

 

[Deino]

good sir I didnt mean to offend u in any way
i just asked a simple question and i specifically mentioned "apart from everything"
if u felt uncomfortable due to my question u could have said so that u dont wanna answer
or if u did answered it yes or no
still my Q remains

Well to ask someone if he is "autistic in some way or any other psyc condition" is not an at least strange or even offensive question? Therefore what's your point to think I'm "autistic in some way or any other psyc condition"?

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm neither "autistic in some way or any other psyc condition", I'm an analyst and in real live I'm a teacher, so my point is I have indeed issues leaving pompous boasting or simply nonsensical reports and especially lies and fake news uncommented, and it doesn't matter whether it comes from Indians, Russians, Chinese, Americans or even Pakistanis. I'm interested in facts.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Why would Egypt buy J-10Cs shortly after purchasing Rafales? The deliveries are expected to begin this year.

To throw in the J-10C in arguments is like trying to cover up the fact that Egypt chose Rafales over J-10Cs.

just for the unrestricted weapons package mated with its easa radar n the EW package that the J10C brings to the table compared to the wt the Rafale brings.

there is simply no contest.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

just for the unrestricted weapons package mated with its easa radar n the EW package that the J10C brings to the table compared to the wt the Rafale brings.

there is simply no contest.

So, did the Egyptians not take that into consideration when they would've evaluated their options?

The only reason Pakistan purchased J-10Cs is because the US won't sell any additional F-16s and the European ones are either too expensive for Pakistan or the US prevents Europe from selling their aircraft to Pakistan.

 

[Sami_1]

Why would Egypt buy J-10Cs shortly after purchasing Rafales? The deliveries are expected to begin this year.

To throw in the J-10C in arguments is like trying to cover up the fact that Egypt chose Rafales over J-10Cs.

The Egyptian Air Force is large and Egypt follows a policy of diversifying weapons sources so that it is not pressured by one of the suppliers.

The West supports Israel and will be against Egypt in the event of any war with it.

The diversity of fighters means the diversity of backward capabilities and ammunition.
Economically, Egypt cannot rely on 100 Rafale fighters in its air force. The cost of one plane is $150 million. It is ultimately a fourth-generation fighter and not all missions require a fighter like the Rafale.

One of the reasons is that the Russians were unable to develop the MIG-35 aircraft at the required level appropriate to Egyptian needs.

Suppliers cannot meet Egypt's full needs at the appropriate times due to the busy production lines.

There are many factors that led Egypt to turn to J-10C fighters. They represent a light aircraft for Egypt and represent the best price for performance, diversity, and low cost of its ammunition and diversity.

J-10C is developable.

UPGRADE Potential for J-10C:

certain modifications could reduce its radar cross-section (RCS). These might include:
Incorporating radar-absorbent materials (RAM) into critical areas like the engine intake, cockpit, and leading edges.
Redesigning some external features to minimize radar reflection.
The possibility of developing sensor fusion capabilities to provide higher capabilities

Enhancing the J-10C’s sensor fusion capabilities by integrating more sophisticated data processing algorithms and artificial intelligence (AI) to improve the pilot’s ability to interpret and act on sensor data quickly.
Upgrading the AESA radar to have greater range, resolution, and multi-function capabilities, including electronic attack modes.
Possibility of updating
IRST (Infrared Search and Track) systems, to provide passive detection capabilities that complement the radar and mitigate help the risk of being jammed or decoyed.
The software package includes PL-15 production
Continuing to refine and extend the range and performance of the PL-15 or developing even more advanced long-range missiles with enhanced seekers and counter-countermeasures (CCM).
Exploring hypersonic missile technologies
Availability of capabilities to improve performance
Electronic Warfare (EW) and Countermeasures
The ability to improve
Enhancing the J-10C’s ability to operate in an electromagnetic spectrum environment by improving its radar warning receivers (RWRs), electronic support measures (ESM), and electronic countermeasures (ECM).

Enhancing the J-10C’s datalink capabilities to allow for real-time information sharing with other friendly assets.
Developing secure communication channels and ensuring seamless interoperability with other platforms, such as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and command centers.
Implementing AI-driven decision support systems to help the pilot process and act on battlefield information quickly and accurately.
All this is being studied with the possibility of working with UAV and early warning aircraft.

At a cost of 1/3 of obtaining a fighter like the Rafale, it provides Egypt with financial resources by integrating fifth-generation fighters while maintaining the number of fighters for the theaters of operations facing Egypt, whether in the eastern Mediterranean, Libya, or the sources of the Nile. Also, Egypt does not depend on one camp, eastern or western.

Egypt will also turn to Chinese fifth-generation fighters. for secnd stage

 

[Reichmarshal]

So, did the Egyptians not take that into consideration when they would've evaluated their options?

The only reason Pakistan purchased J-10Cs is because the US won't sell any additional F-16s and the European ones are either too expensive for Pakistan or the US prevents Europe from selling their aircraft to Pakistan.

the only reason why PAF even considered going for addition F 16 was the simple fact that u.s owed Pakistan money in the form of CSF n they at the time were not willing to give cash n wanted Pakistan to buy stuff from them.