PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Deino]

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J-10Cs are ready and available in huge numbers to be imported as and when required on a war footing, so this could allow Pakistan to concentrate on other acquisitions in the meanwhile in my opinion.

No they are not, it‘s utter nonsense to think they „are ready and available in huge numbers to be imported as and when required“ since the PLAAF surely won‘t transfer just on demand their own ones and CAC will never produce them without a signed contact and even then it takes at best a Minimum of two years to manufacture and deliver them.

 

[rafale]

That was the past. The future conflict will be different, their doctrine shows it will be Brahmos + Drones on attack from IAF and IA, and S-400 for offensive role for SEAD against PAF jets, with Navy trying to take out a couple or more of PN ships, even OPV's, to take revenge and set score.

Their assessment is, putting IAF assets in J-10C's missile range (PL-15) brings loss worth $200 million per jet with global embarrassment. But if Brahmos costs $2 million, for one Rafale, you could build 100. With at least 25% or more hit rate on large silos. That's why they placed very big orders for Brahmos in that 67,000 crore order.

For S-400, they are getting 5 more on urgent basis. I've seen estimates as high as 20 batteries in three tiers. 1st tier near borders, 2nd tier 100 KM behind it and third tier further 100 KM behind, covering the Indian airspace in layered format even if we take out 2,3,4 batteries.

Extensive preparations are needed for the next round. The navy needs dedicated air wing with J-10C's and more VLS based ships quick.

If China airlifting missiles and weapons during the May war literally doesn't tell you anything, nothing will.

Chinese also know this and will provide due assistance to take out the S-400 with salvos of MLRS and other systems along with real time sat imagery/intelligence where S-400 is located.

AVM Aurangzeb did mention the same, he said striking and destroying S-400 is not the issue. Where it is located exactly and what equipment (because radars can be located far away from launchers) that is the real issue.

Also, S-400 is overhyped, like SPECTRA on Rafale.
Pretty sure PAF has or will have its electronic counter as well.

 

[RajaBaja]

If China airlifting missiles and weapons during the May war literally doesn't tell you anything, nothing will.

Chinese also know this and will provide due assistance to take out the S-400 with salvos of MLRS and other systems along with real time sat imagery/intelligence where S-400 is located.

AVM Aurangzeb did mention the same, he said striking and destroying S-400 is not the issue. Where it is located exactly and what equipment (because radars can be located far away from launchers) that is the real issue.

Also, S-400 is overhyped, like SPECTRA on Rafale.
Pretty sure PAF has or will have its electronic counter as well.

Read Deino's post right above yours and my post that you are responding to, are similar. China can't just airlift hundreds of PL-15 missiles and will give us the J-10C's that in people's opinion, are ready, waiting for Pakistanis to order like a Pizza on some food app for a 45 minute delivery. Their versions of avionics, etc, run on Chinese everything and ours are customized for us in English, just one issue.

China will also NOT fight your war for you. WE, the Pakistanis have to plan it out. We need to think what Modi wants? He wants Pakistan to become Gaza or be gone! He's a mass murderer and no humanity is over Hindutva for him. This is Hindu Talibans at work for you.

So we need to plan, prepare and be battle ready, WITHOUT CONSTRAINTS, to go into a long war, the end of which, Modi's already assessed, a few millions Indian will die, but they'll try to destroy majority of the Pakistan.

 

[Oscar]

Read Deino's post right above yours and my post that you are responding to, are similar. China can't just airlift hundreds of PL-15 missiles

Likely wont end up in that scenario but if needed PL-15 stock access is available rather openly.

 

[RajaBaja]

Likely wont end up in that scenario but if needed PL-15 stock access is available rather openly.

Platforms are a bigger issue, the J-10C plane that's become so critical. Missiles are obviously much easier item.

 

[Oscar]

Platforms are a bigger issue, the J-10C plane that's become so critical. Missiles are obviously much easier item.

Then you have to wait for production to happen.
For that matter you need money

 

[Scorpio]

It's a very complicated question. PL-16 is not PL-15 V2.0, etc. Meaning it's a new family with up to date technology set. Not just a simple upgrade to PL-15 that can just be mounted instead of existing PL-15.

It the adapters are the same between PL-15 and PL-16, and an AWACS will guide it, one can assume that it can be used readily.

However, China has started to roll these out in the field. So the integration testing is being finished at limited scale. Soon, J-10CE's will get these upgrades too.

PL will most probably integrated with stealth jets..
As per info there size compact ..

So J10 integration might not be on roadmap...

 

[side-winder]

Next logical question. Which new missile will be inducted in place of PL-15s, since Indians now know their range and won't come any closer now?? We won't induct a new platform just to induct a new missile, right....

Further refinement and increasing robustness of the exisitng Kill Chain involving all systems - for now.

The startegy, perhaps, would be to carry out SEAD while targetting S400. Then take the fight to enemy terrority and further extend 'no fly zone' for IAF to deny them the option of attack from air.

Meanwhile - precision strikes need to be done on SSM BrahMos launchers in parallel. I was personally surprised about how come launchers at some of the locations were continuously spitting up BrahMos into air and onto PAF bases.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

No they are not, it‘s utter nonsense to think they „are ready and available in huge numbers to be imported as and when required“ since the PLAAF surely won‘t transfer just on demand their own ones and CAC will never produce them without a signed contact and even then it takes at best a Minimum of two years to manufacture and deliver them.

You could be right but Pakistan does have personnel permanently based in China just for the sole purpose of acquiring spares and other acquisitions on war footing if required. This is part of the threat matrix used by Pakistan since 2011.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... China will also NOT fight your war for you. WE, the Pakistanis have to plan it out. We need to think what Modi wants? ...

Don't you think acquisition of J-10Cs are part of planning for scenarios?

Hasn't the readiness not be demonstrated twice now, first in 2019 and then 2025.

On both occasions, the Indians don't seem to know how to encrypt their Comms.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Concentrate on building our own Air Defense against hypersonic saturation attacks. Induct PN subs on a crash basis and equip them with hypersonic missiles. Replace your ageing aircraft inventory with either the J-10C or JFT Block III. Look for upgrades to our F-16's. That should be our immediate priorities. KAAN & J-35 can come later with PL-17.

 

[RajaBaja]

Don't you think acquisition of J-10Cs are part of planning for scenarios?

Hasn't the readiness not be demonstrated twice now, first in 2019 and then 2025.

On both occasions, the Indians don't seem to know how to encrypt their Comms.

J-10C's in 25 or even 36 aren't enough. The situation is drastically changing this time. I posted a picture above of proposed Indian AD scenario. Check that out. So we need to plan accordingly.

India is now spending huge amounts to create multi-domain network and put all its assets on one encrypted data link. Attack scenarios limited to two jets only, the SU-30's and the Rafale's to keep it simple.

More Rafale's are being purchased and 5 immediate and overall 20 total S-400 systems are being planned backed by their own LR Sams. They've already released funds worth 67,000 crores for all this. So we need to plan accordingly and urgently.

Then you have to wait for production to happen.
For that matter you need money

That's what I was explaining to the person above . First you have to do an agreement, sign it, then money is given in some fashion and then development takes place. People here think China keeps a few squadrons ready for Pakistan and on a phone call they are dispatched. Not the case.

 

[Deino]

You could be right but Pakistan does have personnel permanently based in China just for the sole purpose of acquiring spares and other acquisitions on war footing if required. This is part of the threat matrix used by Pakistan since 2011.

It's not a question if I'm right!

Just as perfectly summarised by:

...First you have to do an agreement signed, then money is given in some fashion and then development takes place. People here think China keeps a few squadrons ready for Pakistan and on a phone call they are dispatched. Not the case.

- China won't transfer their own assets (at least not before it's own security is in danger)
- CAC won't produce them for stock and wants money for any J-10C ordered
- and only after an order it takes time to produce them

And that's an interesting point: The longer Pakistan waits for a second or even third order, the more difficult it will become, because CAC won't simply maintain the production line out of friendship if no more customers come forward.

That's why I actually find it extremely exciting to see what happens in the coming months: What about all the rumors about new export customers? Pakistan's second order, Egypt, Sudan, Uzbekistan (I still don't believe it), Algeria, and whoever else has been mentioned? When will we get confirmation as to who the J-10CEs identified so far are for?

As I said, CAC is currently primarily producing J-20As and ASs and has the next generation like the J-36 (and probably various ACAVs/CCAs) in testing... the J-10C is indeed a discontinued model unless someone actually orders more soon.

 

[RajaBaja]

It's not a question if I'm right!

Just as perfectly summarised by:


- China won't transfer their own assets (at least not before it's own security is in danger)
- CAC won't produce them for stock and wants money for any J-10C ordered
- and only after an order it takes time to produce them

And that's an interesting point: The longer Pakistan waits for a second or even third order, the more difficult it will become, because CAC won't simply maintain the production line out of friendship if no more customers come forward.

That's why I actually find it extremely exciting to see what happens in the coming months: What about all the rumors about new export customers? Pakistan's second order, Egypt, Sudan, Uzbekistan (I still don't believe it), Algeria, and whoever else has been mentioned? When will we get confirmation as to who the J-10CEs identified so far are for?

As I said, CAC is currently primarily producing J-20As and ASs and has the next generation like the J-36 (and probably various ACAVs/CCAs) in testing... the J-10C is indeed a discontinued model unless someone actually orders more soon.

Thank you for summarizing it perfectly. My previous posts have included this rationalization and linked it per our threat matrix for India. And that's why I say often:

Whatever Pakistan was going to buy in the next 5 years, needs to be ordered now with an urgent delivery request, especially the J-10C, HQ-19's and Naval ships. Because Indian acquisitions for which a massive amount of money has already been released, is ONLY for a war with Pakistan.

Their PM and Army Chief keep saying "the pause in the war can be broken by any side by firing one or a silo of missiles". We must take these statements seriously, and be ready.