PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[side-winder]

I truly wish our Vipers evolve into next generation with upgrades in avionics as well as armament - this platform is still formidable and gives nightmares to our enemies in the east as well as west - and we can't put all eggs in the Chinese basket either.

However, being realistic, i don't see that happening in the foreseeable future - we won't like the conditions with approval - if at all, they are willing to approve in the first place.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Which ties up with the original conversation, why spend precious monetary resources on upgrading the numbers of F16s in PAF when a) They cant outgun what we already posses in the shape of PL15 and inhouse standoff weapons, b) cant be mated with inhouse munitions, c) Comes with the randi rona of Zoinist/Hindutva lobby in US and all the strings attached, who got time and patience for that?

I really wish there was some hidden mechanism, a press of a button, where our F16s can transform into battlestar galactica and serve us for next one thousand years, I mean no disrespect to the fan boys, but there has to be a realisation from practical point of view, that F16s are now third tier platforms and will go further down the chain with the introduction of J35. By all means, keep them at optimal current levels, where they act as bomb truck within the domain where air supremacy is already established over hostile airspace, and can also act as point defence with their carlies. Even for argument sake if we somehow get Ds (which I presume will require upgrade to AESA, a costly endevour), I doubt even with Ds PAF will risk them sending against Meteor, I mean why would you when you already have PL15 and I am very confident, in next round of hostiles, IAF will eat something more potent then PL15.

PAF will maintain the fleet till its remaining airframe life. Will do minor upgrades too. However, I haven't come across any news of MASSIVE upgrade like bringing 52s to block 70 standard or so.

The future is defined already. F-16s are no more and will not be tip of spear any longer. Chinese platforms will be primary focus. PAF has already done significant investments towards this future path.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Having served at Viper bases - I truly wish our Vipers evolve into next generation with upgrades in avionics as well as armament - this platform is still formidable and gives nightmares to our enemies in the east as well as west - and we can't put all eggs in the Chinese basket either.

However, being realistic, i don't see that happening in the foreseeable future - we won't like the conditions with approval - if at all, they are willing to approve in the first place.

Can PAF really afford the financial cost as well? Cost may well approach new build prices, and if so, then other new build options with fewer restrictions would seem more logical in that case.

Time to book mark the upgrade and the career of the F16 in the PAF ( except for service life increments so that they can see out their 'natural' lives as a Tier 2 force in the PAF ) and invest in the future which will be either or both the Kaan and J-35AE where Kaan can be the Western option.


(imho).

 

[White Privilege]

You are jumping to conclusions. Pakistan will squeeze one more upgrade for the fleet inshallah which will keep the Viper relevant till 2040+ timeframe.

In the MR capacity, F-16s are a huge value-add. No other platform can carry as much ordnance and deliver it with as much precision as the F-16s (specially the blk-52s and others that have been upgraded to Blk-52 specification ~ together these number close to 55 so this is 3 squadrons worth of capability which is huge and should be invested in and maintained.)

if upgraded to Blk-70 standard, F-16s would be the platform of choice after the stealth J-35s. Lot of "ifs" here but anything is possible.

In current configuration, Vipers can serve their purpose of air combat however in the presence of Meteor threat, they need to be supported by a wall of ESM to get close enough to launch an effective AMRAAM attack. I believe it is possible.

 

[White Privilege]

The next logical upgrade for J-10s, the PL-17 missile. Will Pakistan also opt for it??

China’s J-10C Armed With World’s Longest-Range Air-to-Air Missile Sparks Indo-Pacific Alarm - Defence Security Asia

China’s J-10C fighter has reportedly integrated the PL-17 ultra-long-range missile, widely regarded as the world’s longest-range operational air-to-air weapon, dramatically expanding PLAAF standoff interception capability across the Indo-Pacific.

defencesecurityasia.com

 

[Deino]

The next logical upgrade for J-10s, the PL-17 missile. Will Pakistan also opt for it??

China’s J-10C Armed With World’s Longest-Range Air-to-Air Missile Sparks Indo-Pacific Alarm - Defence Security Asia

China’s J-10C fighter has reportedly integrated the PL-17 ultra-long-range missile, widely regarded as the world’s longest-range operational air-to-air weapon, dramatically expanding PLAAF standoff interception capability across the Indo-Pacific.

defencesecurityasia.com

That again is spread everywherd but NOT proven.

 

[Yasser76]

That again is spread everywherd but NOT proven.

Not even sure how practical such an ultra long range missile is in south Asian scenario

 

[Deino]

Not even sure how practical such an ultra long range missile is in south Asian scenario

The Main Argument against it is, the J-10‘s Radar isn’t far-reaching enough.

 

[Corax]

The Main Argument against it is, the J-10‘s Radar isn’t far-reaching enough.

Last May demonstrated that that isn't important anymore, given data linking. I doubt any of PAF's kills were based on J10s gaining a radar lock, most likely off board targeting and mid course guidance.

 

[Yasser76]

Last May demonstrated that that isn't important anymore, given data linking. I doubt any of PAF's kills were based on J10s gaining a radar lock, most likely off board targeting and mid course guidance.

True but then that creates a dependancy on other assets, many times fighters will be in standard alone configuration, albeit less and less these days

 

[Taimoor]

Not even sure how practical such an ultra long range missile is in south Asian scenario

I suppose in next conflict, IAF will stay far away from the range of PL15s, well within the coverage of their AD. We should be keeping track of their acquisition of the standoff weapons, that will give us clear indications as to what they are upto. I am 100% sure, they will be going for Israeli ALBMs, which will allow them to remain under S400 coverage. PL15s will not be able to reach those ranges.

 

[Yasser76]

I suppose in next conflict, IAF will stay far away from the range of PL15s, well within the coverage of their AD. We should be keeping track of their acquisition of the standoff weapons, that will give us clear indications as to what they are upto. I am 100% sure, they will be going for Israeli ALBMs, which will allow them to remain under S400 coverage. PL15s will not be able to reach those ranges.

Yeah, but I guess anything 500km plus away from Pak air space, be it fighters or AEW, aint gonna be of much threat to us.

 

[sutton9999]

Last May demonstrated that that isn't important anymore, given data linking. I doubt any of PAF's kills were based on J10s gaining a radar lock, most likely off board targeting and mid course guidance.

"Wang Haifeng (Vice Chief Designer of J-20, Chief Designer of J-36) disclosed that J-10C performed the lock/shoot of Rafales/Mirage/Su/Mig using its own radar. Erieeye has enough fidelity to provide general direction but not fire control level guidance."

 

[Taimoor]

Yeah, but I guess anything 500km plus away from Pak air space, be it fighters or AEW, aint gonna be of much threat to us.

Correct me if I wrong, wasnt IDFAF firing their ALBMs towards Iran from Iraqi airspace?

 

[Yasser76]

Correct me if I wrong, wasnt IDFAF firing their ALBMs towards Iran from Iraqi airspace?

Yeah, but think they were literally in Iraqi airspace at the time, could be wrong.