PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[side-winder]

Alright gentlemen enough of it now, please - all this "discussion" is nothing more than just a guesswork - so please stop throwing personal attacks and move on.

 

[Waz]

No one knows the rules during the exercise and we are talking about the Qatari air force which is levels below the PAF.
The Rafale is no where near the equal of the Typhoon in air to air combat, so hence was easier to drop.

 

[Yasser76]

Qataris let our JF-17s and J-10Cs exercises often against their Rafales before May 7th, we owe them for that. Guess it was their way of making a point to India after the Indian/Israel spy scandal on their sub programme

 

[Waz]

Qataris let our JF-17s and J-10Cs exercises often against their Rafales before May 7th, we owe them for that. Guess it was their way of making a point to India after the Indian/Israel spy scandal on their sub programme

They're close allies bro, now even closer with the Saudi/Qatar pact.
The UAE is piggy in the middle, literally.

 

[SteppeWolff]

They're close allies bro

Are they though? We all have seen how Qatari Al Jazeera has been used to peddle Afghan Taliban narrative against Pakistan brazenly.

 

[Yasser76]

Are they though? We all have seen how Qatari Al Jazeera has been used to peddle Afghan Taliban narrative against Pakistan brazenly.

Stay on topic, hate it when good threads turn into shit fights like that

 

[SteppeWolff]

Stay on topic, hate it when good threads turn into shit fights like that

Use the button unc

 

[Waz]

Are they though? We all have seen how Qatari Al Jazeera has been used to peddle Afghan Taliban narrative against Pakistan brazenly.

They are and as for Al-Jaz, we've got people in the nation who have soft spot for the Talibs. Anyway, let's stay on topic.

 

[mythbuster]

They are and as for Al-Jaz, we've got people in the nation who have soft spot for the Talibs. Anyway, let's stay on topic.

Though not a regular viewer of Al Jazeera , I have noticed subtle changes in it's attitude towards Pakistan in recent days.

 

[rafale]

Rafale is more intended for strike and CAS role , it has minimal kinematic compare to typhoon in air superiority role but typhoon is a different story,, typhoon main mission is air superiority and typhoon's specifications is inspired by F-15, so I highly doubt that J-10C has kill 9-0 against one of the best jet in the world

Again,

You are misreading and misjudging the debate here.
And Eurofighter is indeed a top fighter, but Europe is lagging and lagging far behind. China has equalled and exceeded any Europe fighter program out there.

I would absolutely be not surprised even 1% if true paper specs of both J-10CE and Eurofighter were revealed and J-10CEs ended up being better in Radar capabilities.

Also, Rafale is not a strike fighter. It was always marketed as an Omni Role fighter so Airforces like French and others do not need strike and AA capable platforms separately, but rather consolidate their fleets into one. What strikes Rafale can carry out, even upgraded F-16s can do it. Rafale was marketed again and again as a fighter that the pilot can fly into combat, carry out strikes and also simultaneously defend himself with AA missiles.

And whatever combat strike missions Rafales carried out (before IAF's clown assery strikes on Pakistan) in places like Syria/Iraq, could have been done by decades old Tornados as well.

This is the exact bullshit that Indians fell for and after carrying out strikes ended up dead with nothing to show for AA capability.

Its not just the capability on paper that matters, but the whole system that derives it. EuroRadar makes excellent capable radars, its just like pretty much every program in Europe (because of their own bureaucracy and lethargy) its output is delays upon delays. Chinese can field one radar today and the speed at which they are progressing, they can literally have the next upgrade one next year.

 

[Ibbi32]

Again,

You are misreading and misjudging the debate here.
And Eurofighter is indeed a top fighter, but Europe is lagging and lagging far behind. China has equalled and exceeded any Europe fighter program out there.

I would absolutely be not surprised even 1% if true paper specs of both J-10CE and Eurofighter were revealed and J-10CEs ended up being better in Radar capabilities.

Also, Rafale is not a strike fighter. It was always marketed as an Omni Role fighter so Airforces like French and others do not need strike and AA capable platforms separately, but rather consolidate their fleets into one. What strikes Rafale can carry out, even upgraded F-16s can do it. Rafale was marketed again and again as a fighter that the pilot can fly into combat, carry out strikes and also simultaneously defend himself with AA missiles.

And whatever combat strike missions Rafales carried out (before IAF's clown assery strikes on Pakistan) in places like Syria/Iraq, could have been done by decades old Tornados as well.

This is the exact bullshit that Indians fell for and after carrying out strikes ended up dead with nothing to show for AA capability.

Its not just the capability on paper that matters, but the whole system that derives it. EuroRadar makes excellent capable radars, its just like pretty much every program in Europe (because of their own bureaucracy and lethargy) its output is delays upon delays. Chinese can field one radar today and the speed at which they are progressing, they can literally have the next upgrade one next year.

Love to see rafale sitting on rafale

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Youre gonna have to make so many posts just this year to say wrong lmao

I'll try and not spam the thread but occasionally post it as a reminder of predictions and expectations people had.

 

[rafale]

The question isnt so much as RoEs on how the engagements were set up but what the aircraft were permitted to simulate?

We know the Qataris used meteors recently -
Were they cleared to do the same in the exercise?

If they were it also was helping PAF evaluate Meteors suitability and then perhaps gives even more credence that PAF KNEW that meteors would not reach employment envelope while the PAF could lob PL-15s at them.

Then comes what parameters were kills called? If the parameters were judged within the "allied" disclosable tipwi and assuming this happened in Qatar probably dont have that advanced ranges(happy to be corrected @Ak01 , @Raider 21 ) then they used self reporting for the kill using reference cards unless ACMI was actually involved.

Keep in mind - Qatar has no room for a full true instrumented range, they dont use the CENTCOM one - they bought the land outside Mountain home FOR THAT.

Thanks for your, again, level headed post.

I think PAF was confident one way or the other that using PL15 true version ensured PAF jets stayed within safe margins. Could also be the reason that no targeting or launch of PL15 from JF-17 BLK III was carried out.........because it meant the margin would have reduced enough for Rafales to perhaps pick up JF-17s.

What we don't know still is how PL15s achieved the longest distance kills. Via J-10CE radars or got target data from somewhere else.

But it can definitely be assumed that PAF knew a lot about Rafales and Meteors already from their close interaction with Qataris. Same would be valid with Typhoons as they are operated by Saudis as well.

 

[Dreamer]

He’s always negative and rude, you rarely see him say anything positive about anything.

That is entirely your own fault. You didn't ask him about NGAD.

 

[air marshal]

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