东风夜放花千树
Registered Member
Carrying less fuel means reducing loiter time and range, which requires the command to have very precise timing. This is very difficult.
PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll
- Thread starter Fatman17
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gamaji
Registered Member
BVR or WVR, every fighter jet in the comparison should be assumed equipped with its available capability, i.e. integrated missiles available to both India and Pakistan (such as Pl-15, Meteor, HOBS, etc.) for the focused area (i.e. within or beyond visual range). It will be interesting to see a comparison of J-10C and Rafale for fighting within visual range in the absence of support from outside platforms such as AWACS.
huanghong
Registered Member
It is very difficult. The empty weight of the J-10CE is 9.75 tons, and its engine thrust is 14 tons, giving it a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1.44. The empty weight of the JF-17 Block 3 is 7.89 tons. To achieve the same thrust-to-weight ratio, it would require a medium-sized engine with 11.36 tons of thrust that can fit into the JF-17’s relatively small airframe. However, the current thrust level of the most advanced mature medium-sized engine in the world is only around 10 tons.
MastanKhan
VIP Member
Hi,
JF17 will have sufficient time to climb the required altitude in any air battle scenario unless the airforce radars are asleep.
This TW ratio issue is being brought up by those who had a hard time acceptiung that there would be no merges and dog fights---.
Stating that BVR missiles are like throwing javelins is a very 'simplistic' comment just like saying tha the 170 grain lead is being lobbed by a sniper---.
Metal 0-1
Registered Member
Grandpa Time for meds and nap
MastanKhan
VIP Member
m52k85
Registered Member
Rocket engineers are literally working on grain packing technology in solid rocket fuel motors, and you think he is the one needing a nap. Pitty.
Metal 0-1
Registered Member
I will if you believed in some logic.
Because last time I tried to explain logically that full finger nomex gloves won't be able to save pilots life if it's plummeting down to ground at like 100+ knots. You weren't processing it maybe because the information was so much for ya.
But, you know what I'll try to explain why do you need better T/W in a BVR scenario.
I'm kidding, literally don't have have time and crayons to explain it to you
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Metal 0-1
Registered Member
Tf how the solid propellant grain is arranged, shaped, and fitted inside the motor casing has to do with T/W ratio of a fighter jet which uses a jet engine. Which works on the principle of compressing air
The problem is - no matter how official the message is - that all these statements from exercises, "Player A won x:0 against B" are for the bin and sounds like an laymen‘ quartet play!
As long as we don't know the exercise scenario (Blue vs Red Force), the rules of engagements, the armament, accompanying types, etc., these statements are all simply worthless and without the possibility of verification you can tell everything.
mdmm55
Registered Member
Hello , Mr. Deino and Ghazi52,
I heard,Pakistan need and seeking, more J-10 C (over 100).
Any news to confirm that PAF is negotiating with CHINA about more J-10C ?
Is current J-10C jet fighter ,capable to use PL-17 along with PL-15 ?
I heard,Pakistan need and seeking, more J-10 C (over 100).
Any news to confirm that PAF is negotiating with CHINA about more J-10C ?
Is current J-10C jet fighter ,capable to use PL-17 along with PL-15 ?
Sorry for a short reply only ...
- yes, rumours are correct, if 100 altogether I don't know. Officially confirmed are only "additional ones" will come.
- PL-17 is IMO unlikely even if the aircraft weight-wise is surely capable, but IMO it is not using it.
东风夜放花千树
Registered Member
We are at the Defense Forum in Pakistan. Although we all want to know what happened, we cannot obtain the details. I believe Pakistani officials will not disclose details of cooperation with China; this is a customary practice in China-Pakistan cooperation and serves as a bargaining chip to deter other countries. Therefore, when Bangladesh procured the J-10 fighter jet, it made demands of China. Bangladesh is demanding that China offer the same discounts and payment plans as Pakistan. This surprised us Chinese military enthusiasts, and we enthusiastically discussed the preferential rates for China-Pakistan cooperation projects.
Take the procurement of the J-10CE as an example—we still don't know the details of this collaboration. At the same time, we are also looking forward to the arrival of the J-35AE. So, many expectant members made predictions.
The statement I made earlier came from a video released by a retired Chinese Air Force member in February 2024, while the Pakistan Air Force's exercise to completely defeat the Typhoon fighter jet took place in January 2024. I have always been cautious about the sources of information. So, I never posted about this on the forum, and only when other members brought it up did I remember the video. A screenshot of this video was posted before.
When Pakistan achieved a major victory on May 7, 2025, Chinese embassy staff and maintenance personnel learned of the news. China's authoritative media are conservative, and previous reports cited Pakistani news. In January 2026, China's authoritative military and defense agency announced the top ten national defense technology rankings. The J-10CE's achievements rank tenth in China's defense technology industry for 2025. If you're interested in the top nine, you can search for them. Or ask me, and any public information can be published. Authoritative Chinese media generally disclose authentic information involving military, defense, and diplomatic secrets at appropriate times.
We Chinese are quite reserved and usually don't embarrass others. Exercises conducted in January 2024. As of May 2026, the Qatari Typhoon fighter jets have been fully transferred to Turkey. In May 2026, authoritative Chinese media confirmed Pakistan's complete victory over the Typhoon fighter jets.
At the same time, Authoritative Chinese media confirmed that when India invaded Pakistan in May 2025, Chinese technicians provided full technical support at the Pakistan Air Force base.
I keep these sources in Chinese; those who doubt can use AI to identify them.
Michael
VIP Member
His point wasn't to question the veracity of the news.
Rather, the performance of Type A and Type B fighter jets in military exercises cannot be simply used to prove "Type A > Type B" or "Type A < Type B."
Modern fighter jets are extremely complex systems, influenced by numerous factors in their combat environment. In military exercises, we don't know the pre-set scenario of the engagement.
Chinese official news has reported that in a certain military exercise, the J-16 fighter jet defeated the J-20 fighter jet. Can we then directly use this official evidence to conclude that the J-16 is superior to the J-20? — That's meaningless.
Even in actual combat, this conclusion cannot be drawn definitively. For example, in a Counter-Strike game, I can consistently defeat your AK-47 with a knife. We wouldn't conclude that a knife is stronger than an AK-47.
Fighters are merely tools of war. The essence of war is a battle between people, not a battle between tools.
东风夜放花千树
Registered Member
The PL-17 will not be joining Pakistan's combat formations for the time being. This is the latest technology from China, Russia, and the United States in long-range strike early warning aircraft and high-value targets. Fortunately, China is developing rapidly in this field, and it may transfer the technology to Pakistani forces within 10 to 30 years.
If Pakistan wants to counter India's early warning aircraft, it can ask China to provide electronic warfare equipment. Last year, Pakistan's electronic warfare achieved a suppressive victory, intercepting communications of the Indian Air Force and disabling the connection between fighter jets and early warning aircraft.
If Pakistan wishes to assist Saudi Arabia against Israel, it can similarly inform China. China clearly opposes Israel's Gaza policy, and on this issue, we stand with the Islamic world. The China-Pakistan joint statement explicitly mentions strengthening bilateral cooperation. So this issue is straightforward; several wars have proven that Israel does not have high technology. The F-35 is not that exceptional either. Iran’s air defense can demonstrate this. Israel's protest against Egypt deploying the HQ-9B also supports this conclusion. The HQ-9B deployed by Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula can directly lock onto the takeoff and landing of Israeli airports.
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