PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[Falcon26]

The only countries that can properly do highway operations in wartime conditions are those countries that operate the Gripen as it was designed from the outset for those kind of operations.

PAF will use highways for emergency aircraft recovery I reckon, but not much more imho.

And what’s the reason it can’t build doctrine around highway usage?

 

[AeronautIR]

How come PAF hasn’t institutionalized highway operations like Sweden given its lack of strategic depth? We have seen PAF engage in cosmetic highway operations through mirages and F-7s but never with JF-17s, F-16s and J-10, and support aircraft.

It strikes me as a major missed opportunity given Pakistan’s extensive modern highway infrastructure. As we saw in May 2025, the enemy’s first priority will be major airbases and due to the reality of modern swarm drones and supersonic missiles, there’s nothing you can do about it.

PAF was an early pioneer of highway operations in Asia but somewhere along the way, it abandoned it.

It is not that simple... the condition of our roads isn't ideal and FOD is a major concern. Can't compare with Sweden. Also, every base has at least 2 runway surfaces and it's not possible for IAF to take out all of them simultaneously. Contingencies of runway blockage or unavailability are practiced regularly to mitigate this strategic depth issue.

 

[Ali_Baba]

And what’s the reason it can’t build doctrine around highway usage?

I think it is because the platforms themselves ie J10CE/JF17/F16 don't really lend well for highway operations ? What is the point of a doctrine if the foot print of resources and equipment to operate the jets itself is high ? The F7s and Mirages are more difficult birds to land, so while we have seen demos of those landings, I don't that in the stress of wartime conditions.

Gripen was designed from the outset to be operated by conscripts( 6 people with 5 conscripts and 1 trained technician) with minimal remote equipment in terms of trucks etc.

 

[ThoroughPro]

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Depends on F16 upgrade, if that happens, then probably one more squadron of 20, if not then may be upto 60 or 80 (as a replacement of F16) with 2 squadrons of F35 for air supremacy

 

[ThoroughPro]

It is not that simple... the condition of our roads isn't ideal and FOD is a major concern. Can't compare with Sweden. Also, every base has at least 2 runway surfaces and it's not possible for IAF to take out all of them simultaneously. Contingencies of runway blockage or unavailability are practiced regularly to mitigate this strategic depth issue.

In a full blown war with precision strike capability using stand off weapons, there is always a possibility especially when the enemy knows PAF is their biggest challenge.

 

[Trailer23]

Would be interesting where they decide to base them - I feel Sargodha is now a bit too close for comfort to the border.

They would have to get someone (a Sqn) out of there - if it were to be at PAF Base Mushaf.

That Base is like an Air Force of its own.

You have...
a) No. 9 (Griffins) - F-16
b) No. 7 (Bandits) - Mirage III
c) No. 82 (Stallions) - SAR

...then then you have CCS-roled Squadrons with their multiple jets like No. 29 (Aggressors), No. 23 (Talons), the CCS Mirage (Sky Bolts) and the recently renamed Dashings with the CCS JF-17.

I just do not think the Base has enough to accomodate 20 odd J-10.

Bandits outta be thrown back to...(what was it)...Masroor.

But that is NOT gonna happen. Our GREAT Air Chief out of sheer frustration forefully moved his former Squadron into Mushaf & then made a former Delta Rider the Base Commander.

 

[Trailer23]

Too much bird activity in Karachi.

Bhai jaan,
Too much activity in Karachi (period).

 

[Trailer23]

One of things that I think about the most, regarding the additional J-10's (whenever they do come) is the role between the two.

Will PAF attempt to incorporate something similar to the Mirage roles.

One being Multi-Role.
The other a more Tactical Attack role to stike deep behind enemy lines.

 

[Trailer23]

Also it has to be noted that if another Squadron of 20-odd J-10's were to come, would they be replacing an Operational (Squadron) by retiring the former, or just assigning a new Squadron in order to keep Strength in Numbers.

When the initial batch of J-10 arrived, Sqn No. 15 (Cobras) took in the J-10's, but if you recall the Mirage V's were then transfered to new Squadron - No. 50 (Saf Shikan) at PAF Base Rafiqui.

​

 

[Oscar]

Ask your wife if it's ok to live there.

I know Wg Cmdrs at Bholari and they spend their time shuttling to Hyderabad or further to Karachi. Or family spends time at in-laws who live elsewhere. It just really is a dead place- but then so was Jacobabad.

The base has facilities but in a way the family structure of Pakistan these days with sons moving out allows daughters to come back and stay with parents for extended periods - which enables such postings even if you have "split" times away from family.

Either way, it works out even if leading to friction on and off.
For every Bholari there is a Lahore , Mauripur and so on.
Shorkot, Sargodha and others are still fairly well built out so not really that intolerable.

Also depends on what stage of your life the family is - enough PAF schools to support kids though Inter in most of these places - and by the time university arrives many officers are either in the stage for NDU or Staff college.

 

[Oscar]

One of things that I think about the most, regarding the additional J-10's (whenever they do come) is the role between the two.

Will PAF attempt to incorporate something similar to the Mirage roles.

One being Multi-Role.
The other a more Tactical Attack role to stike deep behind enemy lines.

You need something to go into the first layer of India's rings. Something that can fly to Dehli and back - and that doesnt mean it MUST fly over Dehli but that it can hit targets there using weapons that will get past AD.
That also means it needs to be able to get past all layered AD - to create the corridor to Dehli that was done for a short while recently - then in that corridor be able to remain uncontested.

The J-10C does enable that to an extent but as more layers of S-400s get added because the current ones were inadequate if one needs to shut off - you need aircraft that can basically go around those layers to surgically cut them down, then have aircraft like the J-10 come in to start expanding that corridor to that first ring.

This is where Iran initially had serious problems because IDF basically went straight into their inner ring and ripped it apart.
India is hoping to replicate that with you, you need to ensure that for them.

 

[Oscar]

1 hour to Karachi and 30 minutes to Hyderabad. 15 minutes to Darawat dam, 45 min Keenjhar ........ The other infra is coming online as time goes by. The same was the case with Jacobabad when Block 52 were housed there. A lot of infra was modernized and added to including BoQ's and MoQ's and other ancillary facilities to sustain family living on the base.

Its 1 hour to hit the edge of Karachi and another 2 hours to get anywhere meaningful in Karachi

 

[Trailer23]

I know Wg Cmdrs at Bholari and they spend their time shuttling to Hyderabad or further to Karachi. Or family spends time at in-laws who live elsewhere. It just really is a dead place- but then so was Jacobabad.

The base has facilities but in a way the family structure of Pakistan these days with sons moving out allows daughters to come back and stay with parents for extended periods - which enables such postings even if you have "split" times away from family.

Either way, it works out even if leading to friction on and off.
For every Bholari there is a Lahore , Mauripur and so on.
Shorkot, Sargodha and others are still fairly well built out so not really that intolerable.

Also depends on what stage of your life the family is - enough PAF schools to support kids though Inter in most of these places - and by the time university arrives many officers are either in the stage for NDU or Staff college.

My time in Bholari wasn't all that great. It was just great being around the guys, but the Base... Its Dead.

It certainly ain't NO Mushaf.

Obviously Shahbaz is well developed, but of the guys that have served in both Bases, they'd pick Bholari everytime.

​

 

[Oscar]

My time in Bholari wasn't all that great. It was just great being around the guys, but the Base... Its Dead.

It certainly ain't NO Mushaf.

Obviously Shahbaz is well developed, but of the guys that have served in both Bases, they'd pick Bholari everytime.

View attachment 203655​

It's young as a base - see accounts of Jacobabad from 2002 versus today. Nobody want to be there.

Either way, the issue is being able to push assets forward when needed and pull them back (and forth) depending upon conflict.
The Saab damaged was because someone was told ceasefire hogaya - they did not heed the need to move it - and then you were hit before the ceasefire took effect because you assumed your enemy is honorable.

Khushfehmian hi khushfehmian

 

[mythbuster]

It's young as a base - see accounts of Jacobabad from 2002 versus today. Nobody want to be there.

Either way, the issue is being able to push assets forward when needed and pull them back (and forth) depending upon conflict.
The Saab damaged was because someone was told ceasefire hogaya - they did not heed the need to move it - and then you were hit before the ceasefire took effect because you assumed your enemy is honorable.

Khushfehmian hi khushfehmian

I have some American friends who were posted in jacobabad .. they were not as pissed off as I was expecting them to be..some rather enjoyed the adventure.