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J10CE doesn't have MB ejection seat. Ty5/7 series is on par or better in overall performance.
PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll
- Thread starter Fatman17
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Be dazzled
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
AliKazmi007
Registered Member
not sure if this is shared or not, just another day in the office!
creit to: Ajlal Khalid
creit to: Ajlal Khalid
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
This is from shaheen exercise that happened in 2019....before jf 17 block 3 n the induction of j10c in PAF.
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Was it that exercise where the J16D completely crushed the China-Pakistan joint team? I heard that in one battle, the J10C sacrificed itself to create an opportunity for the JF17 to take down the J16D. But it was just a J16D simulator, not a fully operational J16D.
AliKazmi007
Registered Member
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AliKazmi007
Registered Member
Jokes aside, I can see a legitimate use case for the J-16 in limited numbers, particularly for the PAF in long range strike and maritime support missions alongside the Pakistan Navy. That said, would China even be willing to export it, and could Russia create complications because of the aircraft’s Su-27 lineage and intellectual property history?
The bigger question is affordability. Pakistan’s economy is already under considerable pressure, while the PAF also wants to induct fifth generation fighters such as the J-35 and potentially KAAN. Would there realistically be enough money to acquire and sustain all these different platforms, along with their weapons, training, infrastructure, and maintenance requirements? Even if the J-16 is available, would introducing another small fleet be a wise investment, or would that money be better spent expanding and improving the J-10CE and JF-17 fleets?
The bigger question is affordability. Pakistan’s economy is already under considerable pressure, while the PAF also wants to induct fifth generation fighters such as the J-35 and potentially KAAN. Would there realistically be enough money to acquire and sustain all these different platforms, along with their weapons, training, infrastructure, and maintenance requirements? Even if the J-16 is available, would introducing another small fleet be a wise investment, or would that money be better spent expanding and improving the J-10CE and JF-17 fleets?
niubi
Registered Member
J-16D (and J-15TD) represent the best in service EW dedicated fighters in PLAAF/PLANAF at the moment.
I don't think the export limitation is quite as much an issue of Russia's Flanker design but J-16D is the best active duty, supersonic EW platform China fields.
The 2019 exercise was a first batch J-16 with some EW pods, not a dedicated EW fighter like J-16D. But even then, the results as discussed by reputable leakers claim that it was the first time PAF ever exercised against heavy EW environment which the Americans never simulated with PAF in Red Flag and Anatolian Eagle exercises where both participated due to Opsec. PAF and PLAAF side without EW just could not overcome the side with EW, even demonstration, lite-EW.
Yes China also didn't bring J-16D to Shaheen but did bring a sample. Reportedly, PAF was interested and asked about buying J-16 after this exercise, citing concerns that MKI performs as well as J-16 to which Chinese side responded with reassurance that MKI would be nothing like J-16 and certainly not J-16 with some EW pods.
Supersonic EW is something only the US and China operate (EA-18 for US and J-16D and J-15TD for China). I'm sure China will soon be operating supersonic EW drones like the Type A and B UADFs if they are not already. These machines are basically SPECTRA^SPECTRA + electronics, sensors and comms tech that France simply doesn't have. There's no way that China would sell J-16D even if Russia was okay with it re the Flanker airframe design.
5th gens becoming dedicated supersonic fighter based EW is apparently pointless according to some since EW can reveal its location, making it wasteful BUT it is more a question of power output and EW weapons can be activated at any moment therefore it actually does make sense to build a J-20 based EW fighter. It can utilise stealth to sneak into more advantageous positions before activating EW compared to non-stealth EW fighters. It has more power output than WS-10 powered J-16 and J-15T. The real issue preventing this really is the pods are massive and have to be hung outside. They haven't reached a stage where it can be miniateurised to the degree where the entire package can be as effective as J-16D in its utilisation but still be integrated to be confined within the J-20 itself, without external hanging pods.
I don't think the export limitation is quite as much an issue of Russia's Flanker design but J-16D is the best active duty, supersonic EW platform China fields.
The 2019 exercise was a first batch J-16 with some EW pods, not a dedicated EW fighter like J-16D. But even then, the results as discussed by reputable leakers claim that it was the first time PAF ever exercised against heavy EW environment which the Americans never simulated with PAF in Red Flag and Anatolian Eagle exercises where both participated due to Opsec. PAF and PLAAF side without EW just could not overcome the side with EW, even demonstration, lite-EW.
Yes China also didn't bring J-16D to Shaheen but did bring a sample. Reportedly, PAF was interested and asked about buying J-16 after this exercise, citing concerns that MKI performs as well as J-16 to which Chinese side responded with reassurance that MKI would be nothing like J-16 and certainly not J-16 with some EW pods.
Supersonic EW is something only the US and China operate (EA-18 for US and J-16D and J-15TD for China). I'm sure China will soon be operating supersonic EW drones like the Type A and B UADFs if they are not already. These machines are basically SPECTRA^SPECTRA + electronics, sensors and comms tech that France simply doesn't have. There's no way that China would sell J-16D even if Russia was okay with it re the Flanker airframe design.
5th gens becoming dedicated supersonic fighter based EW is apparently pointless according to some since EW can reveal its location, making it wasteful BUT it is more a question of power output and EW weapons can be activated at any moment therefore it actually does make sense to build a J-20 based EW fighter. It can utilise stealth to sneak into more advantageous positions before activating EW compared to non-stealth EW fighters. It has more power output than WS-10 powered J-16 and J-15T. The real issue preventing this really is the pods are massive and have to be hung outside. They haven't reached a stage where it can be miniateurised to the degree where the entire package can be as effective as J-16D in its utilisation but still be integrated to be confined within the J-20 itself, without external hanging pods.
Guys … forget it! These are all academic considerations as a what if scenario if not only Fan-Boy‘s wer dreams!
The J-16 is Not for Export, let alone the J-16D; period!
That’s as ridicolous as hoping sun would somehow raues in the West!
The J-16 is Not for Export, let alone the J-16D; period!
That’s as ridicolous as hoping sun would somehow raues in the West!
retaxis
Trusted Member
Is that because the Chinese view it as their top tier tech and China doesn't usually export their top tier stuff?
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