PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[Ali_Baba]

That's why I am saying that we should sell most of our F-16 junks and unreliable now

I don't that is a good idea. The F16s can beat every single aircraft in the IAF except for the Rafales. They are still current and nothing can beat the F16 for overall payload capabilities, not even the J10CE.

 

[MirageV3ff]

That's why I am saying that we should sell most of our F-16 junks and unreliable now

Same F-16s that still have an impressively high availability rate and were used extensively during the recent operations in Afghanistan, OP Ghazab-lil-Haq. Vipers are still capable strike fighters and can carry more combat payload compared to other fighters in our inventory. What are you going to replace 75 airframes with in a swift manner? When F-7s and Mirages have not been retired yet. Also in comparison to IAF, Viper is still capable against what the eastern adversary has to offer

 

[K2RULEZ]

I don't that is a good idea. The F16s can beat every single aircraft in the IAF except for the Rafales. They are still current and nothing can beat the F16 for overall payload capabilities, not even the J10CE.

The F-16 fighters are going to serve for many years to come.

Pakistan’s F-16 fleet is widely assessed to possess nuclear deliverability. That says something.

 

[White Privilege]

I am curious, if these current J-10CE pilots were among the first batch which landed, are they identifiable in any older photos or videos, the first OC wasn't seen latter other than the first time he brought these jets home.....

 

[White Privilege]

Same F-16s that still have an impressively high availability rate and were used extensively during the recent operations in Afghanistan, OP Ghazab-lil-Haq. Vipers are still capable strike fighters and can carry more combat payload compared to other fighters in our inventory. What are you going to replace 75 airframes with in a swift manner? When F-7s and Mirages have not been retired yet. Also in comparison to IAF, Viper is still capable against what the eastern adversary has to offer

Even though Chishti sb argued that F-16s did not fire because of being outranged , the official depiction shows a flight closer and squeezed right on the middle amid all the destroyed IAF fighters.

Anyway, without significant upgrades, Viper is good for air defence/OCA only against Indians, but faced with Meteor even that role is diminished.

 

[Yasser76]

Even though Chishti sb argued that F-16s did not fire because of being outranged , the official depiction shows a flight closer and squeezed right on the middle amid all the destroyed IAF fighters.
View attachment 214679
Anyway, without significant upgrades, Viper is good for air defence/OCA only against Indians, but faced with Meteor even that role is diminished.

Am I reading this right, the iAF did not have a single AEW in the air at the time?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Even though Chishti sb argued that F-16s did not fire because of being outranged , the official depiction shows a flight closer and squeezed right on the middle amid all the destroyed IAF fighters.
View attachment 214679
Anyway, without significant upgrades, Viper is good for air defence/OCA only against Indians, but faced with Meteor even that role is diminished.

As MirageV3ff has said - PAF should focus on getting the Mirages 3/V's/F7/F7PG's retired FIRST before anything can think of F16 retirement....

 

[Be dazzled]

Blk 3 and 10 are equally capable of course with visible differences.

 

[Starlord]

why people be hatin on our ol boi F-shola ? they are good capable fighters not just against IAF, but also to bomb the Afghando's.

 

[White Privilege]

Blk 3 and 10 are equally capable of course with visible differences.

I believe Blk 3 is a dark horse, PAF is cooking whatnot with that recipe, which will surprise us and the enemy soon......

 

[White Privilege]

Am I reading this right, the iAF did not have a single AEW in the air at the time?

No there is a Netra back there, shows in the clip from one of the news channels....

 

[rafale]

Same F-16s that still have an impressively high availability rate and were used extensively during the recent operations in Afghanistan, OP Ghazab-lil-Haq. Vipers are still capable strike fighters and can carry more combat payload compared to other fighters in our inventory. What are you going to replace 75 airframes with in a swift manner? When F-7s and Mirages have not been retired yet. Also in comparison to IAF, Viper is still capable against what the eastern adversary has to offer

Their payload capability is useless for us because we really never got the heavy payload that could utilize that capability......i.e. Air to Sea and Air to Ground cruise missiles

Most of the time PAF combat configuration is 4 or 6 BVRs and couple of sidewinders/PL10s.....so that payload capability gets unused.

Sure you can use JDAMs, but the days of when you could fly F-16s near enough to target to release JDAMs are long gone, especially towards the eastern border.

 

[Be dazzled]

No there is a Netra back there, shows in the clip from one of the news channels....
View attachment 214698

At least one phalcon and two NETRAS were recorded in the air.

 

[Yasser76]

No there is a Netra back there, shows in the clip from one of the news channels....
View attachment 214698

Ah, I see it now, thanks

 

[niubi]

Blk 3 and 10 are equally capable of course with visible differences.

why people be hatin on our ol boi F-shola ? they are good capable fighters not just against IAF, but also to bomb the Afghando's.

I believe Blk 3 is a dark horse, PAF is cooking whatnot with that recipe, which will surprise us and the enemy soon......

JF-17 is one of my favourite fighters not for capability even though it carries a bigger punch than its size suggests but precisely because of its value proposition and how it punches above its weight. It's a great engineering project to get extract the most out of an affordable program.

I think the pilot here is referring to equal capability with the focus on its main weapon. Both J-10CE and JF-17 block III can use the PL-15E. They can both carry four PL-15E and two PL-10 to combat with three tanks. Let's ignore the short range missiles for now. That's quite a range and loiter presence with four very capable missiles. The place I disagree with the pilot is the insinuation these are overall equal platforms. He even mentions that engine and kinematic/aerodynamic performance differ. The J-10CE simply can fly better and faster with the same payload. The J-10's radar is simply better than the JF-17's and can do more with it, can probably mask signature better and can exploit the full range of PL-15. This is what PAF wanted J-10CE for. If it were identically capable as block III Jeff then there would be zero point to buy J-10CE.

Blk III is comparable to Gripen C/D and F-16 block 50/52 with SABR upgrade. PL-15 compatibility makes the Blk III better than FA-50 in my view. It's more modern than Mirages.

The Jeff doesn't even fly badly. It's a great balance of every parameter in a small constrained airframe. The aim of the program has been just a perfect example of good PAF direction and engineering management from the start. It even became a decent export success. The idea of Blk III is brilliant. Multiply its capability with PL-15 compatibility and networking. Networking with early warning and superior sensor platforms. J-10C may be PLAAF's most junior and least capable bird but it isn't a slouch by any measure, certainly most airforces around the world fly mostly 3rd gen and some handful of 4th gens, nothing near J-10CE in capability but Pakistan and India are both well within top 20 airforces whether measuring overall performance or capability of top performing fighters.

The Jeff is a great rate fighter. Holds its own in most regimes except for climb and altitude due to small airframe and limited single mid thrust engine. So becoming a firing node for a relatively long ranged missile was a perfect step. Radar just enough to make use of PL-15 on its own (would be around PL-15's NEZ range for most 4th gen RCS targets) and fully capable of being networked into some CEC with superior sensor nodes like J-10C.

Operating cost, maintenance cost, everything is relatively affordable and Pakistan can perform so much of the entire chain from production to replacement parts. This was the goal and it gave Pakistan an F-16 alternative. One that doesn't fly quite as well as the F-16 which is world leading but holds its own and through avionics upgrades can defeat early to mid block F-16s.

The CAC designers who worked on the JF-17 had a great idea to combine some really proven 4th gen elements into the package. A great example of engineering compromise to bring out a high performance unit from a low cost base. Gave it those leading edge root extensions, cropped delta arrangement.