PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[rafale]

Not that I ever claim to know everything—I’m not collecting cherry points for twilight years, huzoor.

For the sake of clarity, let’s align on terminology:

• Customer confirmed: This has been established and is no longer contentious.
• PAF pilot training: Also confirmed through multiple reliable channels.
• PAF access to J-35 airframes: This is now fairly evident given the patterns of training and exposure.

Where opinions diverge is the claim that J-35s are currently on Pakistani soil in operational configuration.

That’s the assertion under dispute.

To draw a parallel, recall the F-35 program: Dutch, Turkish (prior to their program exit), and RAF pilots all trained extensively in the US. They flew prototypes and LRIP units, many of which were earmarked for eventual delivery. Yet those aircraft remained at stateside bases like Luke AFB until all operational clearances, political conditions, and basing logistics were in place.

So yes, pilot access and exposure to systems is part of the playbook. But a few familiarization flights in-country or abroad do not equate to full operational deployment.

We should perhaps resist the temptation to promote every bit of hearsay overheard in aviation-themed drawing rooms or whatsapp chats into “geo-strategic confirmation.”

I like this kind of posts. Informative and without jingoism and without treading too far from reality.

You see, the issue is really not that J-35s have landed in Pakistan. That's more like social media news and truck ki batti type news.

As you say, PAF already has pilots training on them in China, which only reinforces that sometime in future, and that be near future say one year, J-35s will land in Pakistan. It further reinforces another theory, that Pakistan is ready to get J-35s. Pilot training and familiarization being years before the production numbers are there. The reason i would like to emphasize more on this is because for China's production capacity, expansion, speed it doesn't really matter. Their manufacturing setup and supply chains are second to none. I have experienced this first hand during the large industrial projects I did with Chinese EPC and design firms. They will never get delayed. So comparing to a long delayed and overrun budget project like LM F-35 is a very very bad analogy. Most people in the world cannot fathom the scale of China's manufacturing setup because they haven't seen it first hand.

I have.

So for example, when we were still one year away from accepting our power plant, our O&M team was training and getting ready more than 2 years prior to that. So you can imagine if J-35s need be absorbed, training of Pilots and technicians will need to begin years in advance. If technicians and engineers also start training on maintenance, then it means delivery is imminent within one year.

So whether China has produced 2 or 3 or 5 J-35s so far doesn't matter. Because once they get go ahead to produce, they be producing far higher numbers than you can possibly imagine. Just look at the fast scaling up of production units per year for J-20 or how quickly they delivered the 20 J10CEs.

Yes funding is also an issue, so i am assuming Pakistan will take loans from their EXIMP banks, and banks will ensure timely payments to the contractor.

So to summarize,

J-35s are definitely on order as pilots are training on them. It's induction/delivery is not going to be 2030, it is going to be sooner than that.

 

[Deino]

@Deino Im hearing about a version of PL-17 for internal bays from another semi-reliable “in uniform”source.

Is there anything to indicate such a system?

Honestly, that‘s - at least for the J-20 and J-35 - not possible alone due to its dimensions. Maybe someone confuses this missile with the rumoured PL-16.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

We will see---. Time gets the truth out---.

No, the facts are already on the table! Your re only again too ignorant to accept them since you are too support and this J-10CE does not fit to your exaggerated claims.

 

[Michael]

You should really Check what’s AVIC and what is SAC before posting nonsense.

Many people in this forum are unclear about this matter, but they all claim to know a lot of inside information about the J-35 and boldly speak out about the plan...

@Deino Im hearing about a version of PL-17 for internal bays from another semi-reliable “in uniform”source.

Is there anything to indicate such a system?

Inside the internal weapon bay of the J-20/J-35? ------ Impossible!
External mounting points are feasible.

CM400 AKG is not a derivative of YJ12. The CM400 adopts a "high-altitude ballistic+dive breakthrough" mode, which is fundamentally different from the JY12. JY12's external product is CM302, which uses a stamping engine. The appearance of CM-400AkG is basically the same as that of the Shenying 400 long-range rocket, using a medium aspect ratio trapezoidal wing aerodynamic layout and directly using the solid rocket engine of SY400. Unlike ordinary cruise missiles that fly in the atmosphere. Its maximum flight speed exceeds 5 Mach and it has strong terminal penetration capability.
this is CM400 akg
View attachment 131189View attachment 131190
this is cm302（jy12）JY12 is currently only publicly equipped on the 054a in Pakistan, and the quantity is very small. Another publicly available country is Algeria, equipped with the external land-based version CM302 of JY12
View attachment 131191View attachment 131192

I apologize for not thoroughly researching this issue. I based my answer on a description found on Baidu Baike. Link
I know that Baidu Baike often contains incorrect descriptions.

 

[iblini]

So comparing to a long delayed and overrun budget project like LM F-35 is a very very bad analogy. Most people in the world cannot fathom the scale of China's manufacturing setup because they haven't seen it first hand.

Bingo, people might not feel it at the moment, but the US deindustrialization is already hurting many of its crucial projects, and there are more to come.

On the other hand, we are building and running projects at an unprecedented speed. Just one example, during the 2015 military parade, our navy only had one Type 052D destroyer. Now we have 29 052D and 8 Type 055, that is 37 modern destroyers and 2688 VLS in ten years.

 

[Oscar]

Honestly, that‘s - at least for the J-20 and J-35 - not possible alone due to its dimensions. Maybe someone confuses this missile with the rumoured PL-16.

What is that system?

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Don't know. Might jointly build something new that China also inducts.

No chance. PLAAF has completely different operational, tactical, cost requirements than Pakistan. I don't think China is interested in JF-17 type project, it was worth it during the 1990s for them but it is a waste of time + funds now. They'll prefer you buy off shelf.

 

[Desprado123]

No chance. PLAAF has completely different operational, tactical, cost requirements than Pakistan. I don't think China is interested in JF-17 type project, it was worth it during the 1990s for them but it is a waste of time + funds now. They'll prefer you buy off shelf.

Than what about the exporting orders and I know Pakistan will want to expand reportedly 200 unit quota for it self. Than how Pakistan exports these and expand it for it self?

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Than what about the exporting orders and I know Pakistan will want to expand reportedly 200 unit quota for it self. Than how Pakistan exports these and expand it for it self?

When it comes to exporting you buy off the shelf what is best available to you and tailor tactics around it. Chinese aircraft are primarily designed in mind for the specific requirements of PLAAF.

A JF-17 type project again would mean China having to sacrifice some of their own requirements for something that fits Pakistan's needs (tactically and cost wise), which is not worth it from Chinese perspective when they can simply build a purpose-built one purely for their own needs. And they'd have to cover half costs. Not really fair or desirable for them.

 

[Desprado123]

When it comes to exporting you buy off the shelf what is best available to you and tailor tactics around it. Chinese aircraft are primarily designed in mind for the specific requirements of PLAAF.

A JF-17 type project again would mean China having to sacrifice some of their own requirements for something that fits Pakistan's needs (tactically and cost wise), which is not worth it from Chinese perspective when they can simply build a purpose-built one purely for their own needs. And they'd have to cover half costs. Not really fair or desirable for them.

So you mean if Pakistan wants to make more JF 17 for exports or it self than of shelf option will be avaliable.

 

[iblini]

What is that system?

PL-15's successor, many credible accounts have confirmed it has entered PLA service with J20 units.

 

[TopGun786]

PL-15's successor, many credible accounts have confirmed it has entered PLA service with J20 units.

Any more details about guidance system, range, kill zone?

 

[iblini]

Any more details about guidance system, range, kill zone?

Nope, we don't even know the details of self use PL-15 as of today, the AAM and other air force munitions are even more classified than the jets themselves in China.

 

[TopGun786]

Nope, we don't even know the details of self use PL-15 as of today, the AAM and other air force munitions are even more classified than the jets themselves in China.

Agreed.
It is good for surprise element.
We all know what happened to IAF during May conflict.... Especially PL-15 and PL-15E saga.

 

[Psyko70]

Azm is shelved, can't keep up with KAAN and PFX is a dream as confirmed by Bilal Sahib and others here.

No Block-1 or Block-2 is going to be upgraded to Block-3. They'll go through MLU and retire.

Bro take that with pinch of salt. There is azm its just not progressing well. Kaan is not available for now might be in future. Pfx alpha also in slow progress.