PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[RealNapster]

Whether or not China sells FC-31/J-35 fighter jets to the UAE is irrelevant to Pakistan and other third countries. China has its own arms export policies and regulations. Pakistani friends are welcome to express their opinions, but it's inappropriate to overinterpret them. Just as we don't like Pakistan's military-technical cooperation with Turkey, we don't strongly protest. Unless, of course, military trade between China and the UAE involves Pakistani technology, or military cooperation between Pakistan and Turkey involves Chinese technology. This is a matter of mutual respect.

Well, it is a defence forum, and a public one. Obviously people are going to talk about these things and put their opinions. Doesn't necessarily mean everyone will be right about everything everytime or we should accept each claim or statement as true. But we have to listen to them still because that's how public online forums works.

 

[Lulldapull]

Stealth in life n death cycle now.

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[Luciferdd]

The Chinese government has not imposed any obstacles on the PAF's procurement of the J35AE. In fact, the biggest obstacle to the plan lies in whether the PAF has sufficient funds for procurement. However, even if there is a lack of funds, it is not a significant issue. As long as India starts to deploy stealth fighters in large quantities, interest-free loans and procurement contracts will naturally be submitted to the desk of the Pakistani government leaders. It's just that the timing may be a few years later.

 

[K2RULEZ]

Im curious which 5th Gen fighter India will acquire and how long it will take to aquire.

The way I see it, they have no real options, the SU57/75 Russia cant produce in numbers and will take over a decade, the F35 is unlikely too many US booby traps come with that, Indias own indigenous program will take as much as time as Pak procuring a 6th Gen fighter.

India too isn't going to get their 5th gen platform anytime soon.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

With a declared Intention of safeguarding the existence of state of Pakistan and its borders, China will do whatever it takes to do just that. And Pakistan today is facing an existential threat due to the Indian launched "Water War" that jeopardizes the very existence of its population and hence the state of Pakistan.

Having said that, China is also fully aware that any escalation due to induction of a 5th Gen platform in the region will create problems for it. It will leverage Pakistan to counterbalance India as much as it can but will not go overboard to induce induction of more sophisticated weaponry that can be used against it in the region if it can be helped.

A 5th Gen platform in the region will pull in active US meddling spurred by the usual antics of our Indian friends across the border and its larger diaspora across USA.

Therefore, in my opinion a more prudent approach would be to familiarize, train, and build capacity and eco system to absorb J-35 on the slow route (This gives time for certain J-35 systems including man-machine-sensor fusion to mature) and induct it in a fully capable 5th Gen eco system state as an when required. I also think the trigger point would be for IAF to decide on SU-57 or its derivative. Meanwhile, the other subsystems in the overall eco system that supports the J-35 will be put in place. The last piece would be the jet itself once the green light on SU-57 is given. Another possibility would be the absolute failure of convincing the Indians to resume the IWT in its original form.

My take on the induction timeline.

 

[Yasser76]

With a declared Intention of safeguarding the existence of state of Pakistan and its borders, China will do whatever it takes to do just that. And Pakistan today is facing an existential threat due to the Indian launched "Water War" that jeopardizes the very existence of its population and hence the state of Pakistan.

Having said that, China is also fully aware that any escalation due to induction of a 5th Gen platform in the region will create problems for it. It will leverage Pakistan to counterbalance India as much as it can but will not go overboard to induce induction of more sophisticated weaponry that can be used against it in the region if it can be helped.

A 5th Gen platform in the region will pull in active US meddling spurred by the usual antics of our Indian friends across the border and its larger diaspora across USA.

Therefore, in my opinion a more prudent approach would be to familiarize, train, and build capacity and eco system to absorb J-35 on the slow route (This gives time for certain J-35 systems including man-machine-sensor fusion to mature) and induct it in a fully capable 5th Gen eco system state as an when required. I also think the trigger point would be for IAF to decide on SU-57 or its derivative. Meanwhile, the other subsystems in the overall eco system that supports the J-35 will be put in place. The last piece would be the jet itself once the green light on SU-57 is given. Another possibility would be the absolute failure of convincing the Indians to resume the IWT in its original form.

My take on the induction timeline.

This makes a lot of sense. Just my thoughts here are that China actually thinks about India much less then people imagine. They no longer see it as a threat, the main vision they see India through is as a market of 1.4 Billion people, China wants this market on it's own terms.
Pakistan is no longer seen as just a balance to India anymore, we are a physical, diplomatic and military way for China to expand it;'s influence westward. Pakistan itself is cocking that up a lot on the economic front with delays on CPEC projects, mismanagement and bad Balouch security situation. On the military and diplomatic front we have played a blinder and China is involved.

Chinese backing for Pak mediation efforts and Pak introduction of advanced Chinese systems in GCC for the first time (yes, I know GCC has some Chinese stuff already but am talking Fighter jets and SAMs).

In this light, J-35 in PAF service helps China is several ways

1) Balances India, or even to an extent makes IAF lagging behind PAF for first time ever
2) Shows world a first class air force has inducted Chinese 5th gen, and possibly provides another testing area if we go to war again
3) Opens up Mid East to Chinese kit. Like we did with J-10 expect to see J-35 exercise with close Pak allies like Qatar and Saudi who will see J-35 close up, now also remember we train A LOT of Qatari and Saudi cadets at Risalpur and we have quite a few people on deputation or as contractors in both

 

[Ali_Baba]

With a declared Intention of safeguarding the existence of state of Pakistan and its borders, China will do whatever it takes to do just that. And Pakistan today is facing an existential threat due to the Indian launched "Water War" that jeopardizes the very existence of its population and hence the state of Pakistan.

Having said that, China is also fully aware that any escalation due to induction of a 5th Gen platform in the region will create problems for it. It will leverage Pakistan to counterbalance India as much as it can but will not go overboard to induce induction of more sophisticated weaponry that can be used against it in the region if it can be helped.

A 5th Gen platform in the region will pull in active US meddling spurred by the usual antics of our Indian friends across the border and its larger diaspora across USA.

Therefore, in my opinion a more prudent approach would be to familiarize, train, and build capacity and eco system to absorb J-35 on the slow route (This gives time for certain J-35 systems including man-machine-sensor fusion to mature) and induct it in a fully capable 5th Gen eco system state as an when required. I also think the trigger point would be for IAF to decide on SU-57 or its derivative. Meanwhile, the other subsystems in the overall eco system that supports the J-35 will be put in place. The last piece would be the jet itself once the green light on SU-57 is given. Another possibility would be the absolute failure of convincing the Indians to resume the IWT in its original form.

My take on the induction timeline.

I think the most important thing for PAF to do, is put in place the doctrine and systems that allow PAF to get the best value out of a stealth platform first before inducting the platform. PAF has achieved a lot of that with its multi-domain concept and remote control of BVR missiles as shown through Sindoor, but I suspect that there is more to be done and once those projects are complete and operationalized in the PAF, then the "last" step is the stealth platforms of both the J-35AE and KAAN ( and yes, I think PAF will get both! ).

Stealth needs a real time kill chain to get the most out of the platform. If a stealth platform ever needs to switch on its radar during BVR combat, then you are essentially defeating the point of a "stealth platform".

 

[Yasser76]

I think the most important thing for PAF to do, is put in place the doctrine and systems that allow PAF to get the best value out of a stealth platform first before inducting the platform. PAF has achieved a lot of that with its multi-domain concept and remote control of BVR missiles as shown through Sindoor, but I suspect that there is more to be done and those projects are complete and operationalized in the PAF, then the "last" step is the stealth platforms of both the J-35AE and KAAN ( and yes, I think PAF will get both! ).

Yeah, a lot of that is in place, but we need hardware inputs in that area too, namely the new SAMs and new AEW. Probably good idea to get these and operationalise them before the J-35.

Good news is though we can sit with Chinese and learn a lot of the doctrines, systems and procedures as they integrate J-35 with their assets. Will shorten our learning curve immensely. Very similar to say moving from F-16, Patriot and E-3 to F-35, THAAD and E-7 and embedding with USAF to do this

 

[Ali_Baba]

Yeah, a lot of that is in place, but we need hardware inputs in that area too, namely the new SAMs and new AEW. Probably good idea to get these and operationalise them before the J-35.

Good news is though we can sit with Chinese and learn a lot of the doctrines, systems and procedures as they integrate J-35 with their assets. Will shorten our learning curve immensely. Very similar to say moving from F-16, Patriot and E-3 to F-35, THAAD and E-7 and embedding with USAF to do this

I have heard here, that Pakistan is working on a follow up upgrade of Link-17 ( to Link-18 )? I do wonder if PAF needs a new tactical datalink to get the best value out of stealth.

Guess others like Ak01/Sidewinder/Quwa can opine ?