PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Design Evolution from FC31 to J35

 

[TAC]

Could you elaborate further? Unless it comes with ToT(which I highly doubt)…or gives Pakistan something(technologically) that can aid in KAAN program/partnership…
…chances are…at most Pakistan will have a couple of squadrons of J35…a tip of the spear of sorts.
It will give PAF the ability to carry out deeper strikes inside India due to low observability and more range…
…but in smallish numbers(relatively speaking) it is unlikely to tilt the balance drastically(in a long drawn out war). In fact if a long drawn out war is to occur…Pakistan’s economy will give out within months(as things are right now).

I’m well aware of what 5th gen fighters are capable of…what I’m saying is…PAF should only get these expensive jets when necessary(to keep technological parity). Right now while IAF is caught slipping…PAF should think longer term than importing a couple of squadrons of expensive jets.

Anyways…as a I said…unpopular opinion on my end.

Building up larger numbers of 4th Gen fighters certainly makes sense if you are preparing for all out war BUT that’s not happening because both sides know where that ends. What is far more likely are smaller scale altercations eg Kargil and Feb 2019, that latter being the most likely especially when it’s election season in India PAF’s stated aim is ‘ minimum credible deterrence’ ie having the capability is sufficient and more important than having it in huge quantity. Based on that logic / background and doctrine 1 or 2 squadrons of 5th Gen asap make perfect sense. You go up the capability ladder, get the deterrence in place and add to the numbers as you need to / can afford to.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Design Evolution from FC31 to J35
View attachment 77548

Wow 10years already and now it is finally close to prime time for possible procurement. These things take forever…

 

[Cookie Monster]

Building up larger numbers of 4th Gen fighters certainly makes sense if you are preparing for all out war BUT that’s not happening because both sides know where that ends. What is far more likely are smaller scale altercations eg Kargil and Feb 2019, that latter being the most likely especially when it’s election season in India PAF’s stated aim is ‘ minimum credible deterrence’ ie having the capability is sufficient and more important than having it in huge quantity. Based on that logic / background and doctrine 1 or 2 squadrons of 5th Gen asap make perfect sense. You go up the capability ladder, get the deterrence in place and add to the numbers as you need to / can afford to.

That would be just fine…but IMO Pakistan should not be taking a Qatar approach…as in buy a couple squadrons of this top tier jet…buy a couple squadrons of that jet for a different role…
…it’s not a perfect analogy but u get the idea of the point I’m trying to make.

Qatar can afford to do that…Pakistan cant(hence why I suggested temporarily diverting a portion of defense budget towards economy)…as in maybe go for more JF17 block III spending less money(that mostly gets cycled back into the economy since it’s made in Pakistan).
…even India can afford to buy the Rafales(inefficient import oriented approach).

Normally…if there was no other choice and PAF absolutely needed a 5th gen jet right now…then by all means…even get them on a loan…
…but while there’s breathing room…PAF should go for more longer term goals(as I suggested KAAN subsystems/workshare or something). So unless J35 comes with ToT…or some sort of domestic workshare or something…it’s an expensive purchase(at least for the short term). It would definitely give PAF an edge for a good while…but what good is an edge that Pakistan won’t really use to its advantage(other than a skirmish here and there)…
…I don’t expect the two countries to go to full scale war in the short term(based on how things are right now)…and then in the long term…this advantage would thin out and both might end up having a somewhat level playing field.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Building up larger numbers of 4th Gen fighters certainly makes sense if you are preparing for all out war BUT that’s not happening because both sides know where that ends. What is far more likely are smaller scale altercations eg Kargil and Feb 2019, that latter being the most likely especially when it’s election season in India PAF’s stated aim is ‘ minimum credible deterrence’ ie having the capability is sufficient and more important than having it in huge quantity. Based on that logic / background and doctrine 1 or 2 squadrons of 5th Gen asap make perfect sense. You go up the capability ladder, get the deterrence in place and add to the numbers as you need to / can afford to.

Especially now that President Trump is back to the WH, Bharat may try another 02-26 to have another 02-27.....

 

[TAC]

That would be just fine…but IMO Pakistan should not be taking a Qatar approach…as in buy a couple squadrons of this top tier jet…buy a couple squadrons of that jet for a different role…
…it’s not a perfect analogy but u get the idea of the point I’m trying to make.

Qatar can afford to do that…Pakistan cant(hence why I suggested temporarily diverting a portion of defense budget towards economy)…as in maybe go for more JF17 block III spending less money(that mostly gets cycled back into the economy since it’s made in Pakistan).
…even India can afford to buy the Rafales(inefficient import oriented approach).

Normally…if there was no other choice and PAF absolutely needed a 5th gen jet right now…then by all means…even get them on a loan…
…but while there’s breathing room…PAF should go for more longer term goals(as I suggested KAAN subsystems/workshare or something). So unless J35 comes with ToT…or some sort of domestic workshare or something…it’s an expensive purchase(at least for the short term). It would definitely give PAF an edge for a good while…but what good is an edge that Pakistan won’t really use to its advantage(other than a skirmish here and there)…
…I don’t expect the two countries to go to full scale war in the short term(based on how things are right now)…and then in the long term…this advantage would thin out and both might end up having a somewhat level playing field.

It’s not getting them now, the purchase is at least a couple of years away.
Whether or not, any of the money to be spent on this purchase could be diverted to the economy is a moot point until we know how it is financed. Eg soft loan on long term from China specifically for this purchase could hardly be used in any meaningful way on the economy.
You think it’s an ‘expensive’ purchase in ‘the short term’? What like the J-10’s were?
I don’t really understand this obsession with TOT especially since Pakistan is likely unable to absorb the same.
For Pakistan at least KAAN is little more than a pipe dream. Let’s talk when Turkey has its own power plant for the type.
Don’t really understand how you agree that it provides deterrence agree that Pakistan can use it effectively in skirmishes ‘here and there’ and then say that Pakistan won’t really use it to its ‘advantage’ - how else do you define using it to their ‘advantage’?!
And you’re concerned that in the long term this advantage would ‘thin out’ - so your logic is not to bother getting the advantage since in the long term you think it might thin out? And the enemy ‘might’ end up on a level playing field. Sorry, struggling to follow your logic now.

 

[TAC]

Especially now that President Trump is back to the WH, Bharat may try another 02-26 to have another 02-27.....

If Modi hadn’t got a good ass caning last time he tried, they’d be doing it on a regular basis. Without deterrence we’d be to them what Syria is to Isreal, target practice.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

If Pakistan is getting J35 in 2026, wonder what is India's answer and counter.

India must be acquiring something secretly that's going to have a big impact in the region which has forced the PAF to go for J-31 on a fast track basis. Indians are usually not known to be quite within uptrenth announcements daily but in this case they are.

 

[Faithfulguy]

India must be acquiring something secretly that's going to have a big impact in the region which has forced the PAF to go for J-31 on a fast track basis. Indians are usually not known to be quite within uptrenth announcements daily but in this case they are.

It’s not in India’s nature to keep quiet. Just as a scorpion stings, an Indian brags. If India has something, they will brag about it. That’s for certain.

 

[100%_Guest]

If India has something, they will brag about it. That’s for certain.

foaming from mouths, fingers wagging, heads shaking

 

[iblini]

India must be acquiring something secretly that's going to have a big impact in the region which has forced the PAF to go for J-31 on a fast track basis. Indians are usually not known to be quite within uptrenth announcements daily but in this case they are.

I do agree with faithfulguy on this on, Indian can not keep anything secret.

 

[MastanKhan]

India must be acquiring something secretly that's going to have a big impact in the region which has forced the PAF to go for J-31 on a fast track basis. Indians are usually not known to be quite within uptrenth announcements daily but in this case they are.

Hi,

It is not because of india persay---but in a manner it is---.

As india got stuck with the Rafale---Paf decided to leap frog ahead of the game---. By the time they get their 5th gen aircraft---Paf will be looking into the 6th gen aircraft.

That maybe one reason---but there is another reason---.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It’s not getting them now, the purchase is at least a couple of years away.
Whether or not, any of the money to be spent on this purchase could be diverted to the economy is a moot point until we know how it is financed. Eg soft loan on long term from China specifically for this purchase could hardly be used in any meaningful way on the economy.
You think it’s an ‘expensive’ purchase in ‘the short term’? What like the J-10’s were?
I don’t really understand this obsession with TOT especially since Pakistan is likely unable to absorb the same.
For Pakistan at least KAAN is little more than a pipe dream. Let’s talk when Turkey has its own power plant for the type.
Don’t really understand how you agree that it provides deterrence agree that Pakistan can use it effectively in skirmishes ‘here and there’ and then say that Pakistan won’t really use it to its ‘advantage’ - how else do you define using it to their ‘advantage’?!
And you’re concerned that in the long term this advantage would ‘thin out’ - so your logic is not to bother getting the advantage since in the long term you think it might thin out? And the enemy ‘might’ end up on a level playing field. Sorry, struggling to follow your logic now.

if Pakistan is getting them on soft loan…then sure that money can’t be diverted to the economy…but that doesn’t make it any better for an already debt ridden country(that spends a large portion of its GDP and new loans to pay previous loans)…to go out and buy more on loans(in this case J35).

As for the rest of ur post…u r combining several different scenarios…all into one…just so u can ridicule points that were made. It’s fine if u don’t agree…but don’t deliberately confuse/mix up what was being said.

J10 was NEEDED…bcuz India got Rafale. Same cannot be said for J35 as of yet. There are things that are a must…and there are things that are nice to have…which is the current difference between PAF’s J10 purchase vs J35 purchase.

As for ToT…I don’t expect Pakistan to make an entire jet. Pakistan doesn’t even make JF17 fully and still has to acquire major parts like engines. This is one of those things u r saying deliberately to ridicule even though u understood well what was being said. Coming back to the point…I was saying that any purchase that doesn’t advance Pakistan’s domestic capabilities and is limited to outright buying a couple of squadrons isn’t long term thinking…
…with J35(as it looks right now)…it looks to be just that…as in fully developed by China…that Pakistan will just buy outright.
…with KAAN…whether it’s a pipe dream or not…remains to be seen
…since it’s still in development, there’s a chance of Pakistan’s involvement/workshare/etc.

As for J35 advantage in the short term…
…which will eventually disappear…that’s the same with all things. Ur enemy doesn’t just keep on sleeping. They eventually acquire the ability to counter…or get an equivalent ability to deal the same blow. Just like how Pakistan does whatever it can to put Indian military capabilities in check…so does India…
…so yes acquiring it now…would give Pakistan a lead…but in the long run…India too will get a 5th gen jet. Idk how that was hard to understand.

 

[iblini]

if Pakistan is getting them on soft loan…then sure that money can’t be diverted to the economy…but that doesn’t make it any better for an already debt ridden country(that spends a large portion of its GDP and new loans to pay previous loans)…to go out and buy more on loans(in this case J35).

As for the rest of ur post…u r combining several different scenarios…all into one…just so u can ridicule points that were made. It’s fine if u don’t agree…but don’t deliberately confuse/mix up what was being said.

J10 was NEEDED…bcuz India got Rafale. Same cannot be said for J35 as of yet. There are things that are a must…and there are things that are nice to have…which is the current difference between PAF’s J10 purchase vs J35 purchase.

As for ToT…I don’t expect Pakistan to make an entire jet. Pakistan doesn’t even make JF17 fully and still has to acquire major parts like engines. This is one of those things u r saying deliberately to ridicule even though u understood well what was being said. Coming back to the point…I was saying that any purchase that doesn’t advance Pakistan’s domestic capabilities and is limited to outright buying a couple of squadrons isn’t long term thinking…
…with J35(as it looks right now)…it looks to be just that…as in fully developed by China…that Pakistan will just buy outright.
…with KAAN…whether it’s a pipe dream or not…remains to be seen
…since it’s still in development, there’s a chance of Pakistan’s involvement/workshare/etc.

As for J35 advantage in the short term…
…which will eventually disappear…that’s the same with all things. Ur enemy doesn’t just keep on sleeping. They eventually acquire the ability to counter…or get an equivalent ability to deal the same blow. Just like how Pakistan does whatever it can to put Indian military capabilities in check…so does India…
…so yes acquiring it now…would give Pakistan a lead…but in the long run…India too will get a 5th gen jet. Idk how that was hard to understand.

It take years to master and integrated fifth gen fighter into current system, so it does give you a lead by a big margin.

 

[TAC]

if Pakistan is getting them on soft loan…then sure that money can’t be diverted to the economy…but that doesn’t make it any better for an already debt ridden country(that spends a large portion of its GDP and new loans to pay previous loans)…to go out and buy more on loans(in this case J35).

As for the rest of ur post…u r combining several different scenarios…all into one…just so u can ridicule points that were made. It’s fine if u don’t agree…but don’t deliberately confuse/mix up what was being said.

J10 was NEEDED…bcuz India got Rafale. Same cannot be said for J35 as of yet. There are things that are a must…and there are things that are nice to have…which is the current difference between PAF’s J10 purchase vs J35 purchase.

As for ToT…I don’t expect Pakistan to make an entire jet. Pakistan doesn’t even make JF17 fully and still has to acquire major parts like engines. This is one of those things u r saying deliberately to ridicule even though u understood well what was being said. Coming back to the point…I was saying that any purchase that doesn’t advance Pakistan’s domestic capabilities and is limited to outright buying a couple of squadrons isn’t long term thinking…
…with J35(as it looks right now)…it looks to be just that…as in fully developed by China…that Pakistan will just buy outright.
…with KAAN…whether it’s a pipe dream or not…remains to be seen
…since it’s still in development, there’s a chance of Pakistan’s involvement/workshare/etc.

As for J35 advantage in the short term…
…which will eventually disappear…that’s the same with all things. Ur enemy doesn’t just keep on sleeping. They eventually acquire the ability to counter…or get an equivalent ability to deal the same blow. Just like how Pakistan does whatever it can to put Indian military capabilities in check…so does India…
…so yes acquiring it now…would give Pakistan a lead…but in the long run…India too will get a 5th gen jet. Idk how that was hard to understand.

The main point is that getting 5th Gen well ahead of India, after a long time gives Pakistan chance to get back to ‘Quality over Quantity’ that has historically served them so well. They struggled to maintain this concept when they were faced with Western sanctions and no viable alternatives but China’s amazing advances have changed all that and instead of playing catch up and for example for a significant period making do with wvr combat practice in the absence of bvr weapons, they can actually snatch the initiative back. It is absolutely the right thing for them not to miss that chance. Gaining / absorbing 5th Gen fighters well ahead of India is a masssive advantage and its impact will be felt for years to come. Issues like TOT, when and how India will catch up to me at least pale to insignificance in comparison. You feel that the latter are more important than the former, so yes that is hard for me to understand.