PAF pilot highlights how chinese J10C fighters have left US F16's Obsolete

[MMM-E]

You just can't claim that Turkish F-16s will have a better chance than India's Rafales. Rafales had their EW suites (SPECTRA) and India had its EW / AWACS flying. They weren't going to attack blindly. Atleast Rafales are 4.5 gen, AESA equipped, can carry decent AAMs. I don't think Turkey has anything closer and yet you claim that Turkish airforce will have different results ? On what basis?

SPECTRA is not a strategic system
Its an EW Suite as like Turkish SPEWS-II on the F-16s

what a game-changer Systems are here ? Jammer Aircraft and Unmanned stealth Fighter Jets with AESA Radar

-- ASOJ-23A Jammer Aircraft ( USA , Turkiye , Russia , China , soon Israel )
-- KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 unmanned stealth Jets ( USA and Turkiye in NATO )

India does not possess these technologies.

 

[Michael]

Converting them to drones is a possibility however that would require money, effort and considerable expertise. It may be cheaper and better to buy remotely piloted or autonomous drones off the shelf.

Converting some of the F7/Mirages into remotely piloted drones for special missions may be the only use-case that could be justifiable.

From a technical standpoint, converting F7s or Mirages into unmanned aircraft presents absolutely no issues. This is not high-end technology.

But......

This approach is not suitable for Pakistan. Converting these aging fighter jets into unmanned aerial vehicles is not cost-effective. If Pakistan has no better alternative, then there is nothing wrong with doing so. But in fact, Pakistan has many other, better options.

Of course, modifying a few of the fighter jets for experimental or other special purposes is a different matter.

 

[Afif]

No , Chinese military power is number one in the world which detect the F-16 from 600-1000 km away

typical Chinese communist regime propaganda ... And on top of that, they believe these lies as if they were real.

2. The Radar Horizon (Curvature of the Earth)

• Radars operate on a strict line-of-sight basis because electromagnetic waves travel in straight lines. However, the Earth is curved.

• Even if the KJ-3000 is cruising at a high altitude of 30,000 feet (approx. 9,100 meters) and the F-16 is also flying high, at a distance of 600–1000 km, the F-16 will be physically hidden behind the curvature of the Earth (below the radar horizon). For a radar wave to reach an object 1,000 km away on a straight path, that object would have to be flying in the upper atmosphere or near-space.

What a load of nonsense!

AWACS line of sight at 32000 feet is

=800+km if target is flying at same altitude. (10000 meters)

=700km if target is flying at 16400 feet. (5000 meters)

=400km if it is moving on the ground or sailing in Sea.

Unless your F-16 is taxing on the ground or swimming in water, then yes it will very much likely to be tracked and detected at 600km by AWACS like KJ-3000. Which has one of the most largest and advanced airborne radar ever built.

 

[MMM-E]

Unless your F-16 is taxing on the ground or swimming in water, then yes it will very much likely to be tracked and detected at 600km by AWACS like KJ-3000. Which has one of the most largest and advanced airborne radar ever built.

Only in your dreams maybe
Nothing can detect the F-16 from 600-1.000 km as Chinese claims

600-1000 km detection range is maximum and against large Aircraft like the B-52

 

[MMM-E]

Chinese claim : The KJ-3000 can detect the F-35 from 360 km away

if they say 120 km its okey ... but 360 km what a fantasy world

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Ignore @MMM-E guys or put him on your ignore list, he id on the mission doing propaganda on Turkish military products and @MMM-E China is competing USA and your all-military techs come either from USA or NATO and Do you know how many classified military tech projects is China working on? prime example is you're still developing 5th gen jet but China developed/inducted J-20 nearly a decade ago and start flight testing 2 6ths gen jets in 2024, So that's show how far behind is turkey in terms military tech compared to China. Think logically and use the commonsense

 

[MMM-E]

All of China's claims are unproven fabrications and its technology has never been proven superior to or even on par with US technology, this includes the J-20

Whenever you get cornered on technical details, you attack Turkiye and try to portray China as superior

what a fantasy world to detect the F-16 from 600-1000 km away
this detection range is against large Aircraft like the B-52


another joke , the J-10C has made the F-16 obsolete ,, typical Chinese propaganda


Pakistan's F-16s might be considered obsolote; just try using them against the USA, Israel and Turkiye, and let's see who ends up being the obsolete one.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

All of China's claims are unproven fabrications and its technology has never been proven superior to or even on par with US technology, this includes the J-20

Whenever you get cornered on technical details, you attack Turkiye and try to portray China as superior

what a fantasy world to detect the F-16 from 600-1000 km away
this detection range is against large Aircraft like the B-52


another joke , the J-10C has made the F-16 obsolete ,, typical Chinese propaganda


Pakistan's F-16s might be considered obsolote; just try using them against the USA, Israel and Turkiye, and let's see who ends up being the obsolete one.

And Turkish military tech is SUPIRIOR to Chinese military tech? and proven in REAL COMBAT? at least J-10C+PL-15 combo proven in REAL AIR TO AIR COMBAT, just asking?

 

[MMM-E]

And Turkish military tech is SUPIRIOR to Chinese military tech? and proven in REAL COMBAT? at least J-10C+PL-15 combo us proven in REAL AIR TO AIR COMBAT, just asking?

Nobody here talking about superiority
We are talking about systems

Indian Air Force is a joke which can not detect even the J-10C by AWACs
They got hit from olmost 200 km away .. what a shame

Also , there are no Indian jammer Aircraft as American EA-37B or Turkish ASOJ-23A or Chinese Y-9G to protect the Fighter Jets

The Indian Air Force has disgraced an advanced fighter jet like the RAFALE with 200 km METEOR Missile on the world stage

Because skilled Pakistani Pilots and well-planned tactics

The Pakistan Air Force would have achieved this success with the RAFALE as well.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Nobody here talking about superiority
We are talking about systems

Indian Air Force is a joke which can not detect even the J-10C by AWACs
They got hit from olmost 200 km away .. what a shame

Also , there are no Indian jammer Aircraft as American EA-37B or Turkish ASOJ-23A or Chinese Y-9G to protect the Fighter Jets

The Indian Air Force has disgraced an advanced fighter jet like the RAFALE with 200 km METEOR Missile on the world stage

Because skilled Pakistani Pilots and well-planned tactics

They had/have complete systems but their operational tactics was not work well for them, basically IAF still following Soviet/Russian cold war era doctrine in 21st century whereas PAF using modern doctrine and tactics, and PAF's training courses are more intense and 4 times more flying hours per year over IAF

combat victory is a combat victory whether it's against competent opponent or incompetent opponent

And why you are insisting KJ-3000 has no capability to detect F-16 size targets at 600 km away? do you know in KJ-3000 how many classified techs in it?

 

[MMM-E]

And why you are insisting KJ-3000 has no capability to detect F-16 size targets at 600 km away? do you know in KJ-3000 how many classified techs in it?

What difference would it make if it detected it from 600 km away ?
even 400-450 km will be enough

The J-10C needs to close to within a range of 200 km to execute the strike


However, a modern air force like USAF or TURAF does not give this capability to the J-10C

1 -- E-7T AEWC can detect the J-10C from 350+ km away

2 --Jammer Aircraft as American EA-37B or Turkish ASOJ-23A can jam radars and tactical data-links to reduce BVR combat capabilities of the J-10C to 100-120 km .... perhaps it could stop J-10C completely

3 -- MUM-T concept with unmanned stealth Fighter Jets
F-16s can operate ANKA-3 which has 100-500 times lower RCS than the J-10C to hunt it in BVR combat

4 -- American and Turkish F-16s have EW suite on their F-16s
Turkish SPEWS-II EW Suite deceives the missiles and radars by displaying the F-16 in a different location

It can also generate multiple false targets on the enemy Radar to protect the platform ....... AEWC or J-10C will see on their Radars multiple false F-16s and in a different location


5 -- American and Turkish F-16s have RF decoy to protect platform from RF guided Missiles including the PL-15


The Indian Air Force possesses none of these technologies

Russian, Indian and French made weapons of the Indian Air Force do not operate in coordination with one another, and this is India's greatest disadvantage.

 

[Luciferdd]

中国的所有说法都是未经证实的捏造，其技术也从未被证明优于或甚至与美国技术持平，这其中就包括歼-20战斗机。

每当你在技术细节上陷入困境时，你就攻击土耳其，试图把中国描绘成更胜一筹的一方。

能在600-1000公里外探测到F-16，这简直是天方夜谭。
这个探测范围是针对像B-52这样的大型飞机的。


又一个笑话，歼-10C让F-16过时了，典型的中国宣传。


巴基斯坦的F-16战机或许已经过时了；不妨试试用它们去对抗美国、以色列和土耳其，看看最终谁才是过时的一方。

Unfortunately, public records show the range of 10-years old KJ-500 is 480KM for 1㎡ RCS target.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

What difference would it make if it detected it from 600 km away ?
even 400-450 km will be enough

The J-10C needs to close to within a range of 200 km to execute the strike


However, a modern air force like USAF or TURAF does not give this capability to the J-10C

1 -- E-7T AEWC can detect the J-10C from 350+ km away

2 --Jammer Aircraft as American EA-37B or Turkish ASOJ-23A can jam radars and tactical data-links to reduce BVR combat capabilities of the J-10C to 100-120 km .... perhaps it could stop J-10C completely

3 -- MUM-T concept with unmanned stealth Fighter Jets
F-16s can operate ANKA-3 which has 100-500 times lower RCS than the J-10C to hunt it in BVR combat

4 -- American and Turkish F-16s have EW suite on their F-16s
Turkish SPEWS-II EW Suite deceives the missiles and radars by displaying the F-16 in a different location

It can also generate multiple false targets on the enemy Radar to protect the platform ....... AEWC or J-10C will see on their Radars multiple false F-16s and in a different location


5 -- American and Turkish F-16s have RF decoy to protect platform from RF guided Missiles including the PL-15
View attachment 217129

The Indian Air Force possesses none of these technologies

Russian, Indian and French made weapons of the Indian Air Force do not operate in coordination with one another, and this is India's greatest disadvantage.

ok ok whatever

 

[KingQamaR]

Bro, that kind of thinking is outdated and out of touch with reality.

A fighter jet is a comprehensive system.

When we speak of a specific fighter model, we are usually referring primarily to the airframe platform.
The airframe itself serves merely as a host; it is the technology within its subsystems that determines actual combat capability, though the airframe does impose constraints on those subsystems.

Typically, when a fighter is developed, the airframe platform is designed with room for future subsystem upgrades. Consequently, the initial version of the aircraft often features subsystems that lag behind the potential of the airframe itself—a pattern seen in early J-20 variants, as well as the current KAAN and KF-21.

Subsequently, while the airframe undergoes no major structural changes, development of the subsystems intensifies until a balance is struck between the two. The current J-20A is referred to as the "fully realized" version, signifying that this equilibrium has been achieved.

Decisions regarding further development are made based on requirements. If the choice is made to continue upgrading subsystems, compromises may arise at the subsystem level; specifically, the airframe platform may limit the full performance potential of more advanced subsystems. The JF-17 Block 3 serves as a classic example of this.
Ideally, superior subsystems are paired with superior airframes to achieve a perfect match. However, when such options are unavailable, integrating advanced subsystem technology into an older airframe remains a viable approach.

For instance, regarding the J-10C fighter platform, we can envision the following possibilities:

1. Equipping it with the WS-15 engine. This would make an electronic warfare (EW) variant based on the J-10C platform entirely feasible. It would even be fully viable to develop a twin-seat version of the J-10C to serve as a command aircraft for Manned-Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T) operations.

2. China has already driven down the cost of stealth metamaterial skins to rock-bottom levels. There would be no issue whatsoever with applying this material to the J-10C.

3. Recent reports indicate that China has achieved a breakthrough in the mass production of gallium oxide radar chips. It is entirely feasible to incorporate this cutting-edge technology into the J-10C.

......

There are many similar proposals, and there are absolutely no technical obstacles to implementing them.

The only issue is: it simply isn't worth it!

You’re correct mate. The j-10c is actually the competitor for f-16 since they are both single engine fighter.. Yeah. The 10C, has been multi iterated and refined, totally. The high power radar, multi-nodal data integration of battlespace, for way beyond visual range via AWACS data link guidance, passive senors, ECM, and especially the PL-15 2 stage boost ordinance. And killer dog fight agility. It's a smart choice brother . I'd imagine it has lot's of upgrade options. Such as radar absorption skins and or paint. Thrust vector option. I mean, if the budget said, a Rafael or Gripen, or especially F-35, then fill on completely loaded J-10CV++ makes sense.

 

[KingQamaR]

AI REPORT

The KJ-3000 AEWC cannot detect an F-16 from 600–1000 km away.
While Chinese military literature often claims a maximum radar detection range of up to 1,000 km

1. The Target's Size (Radar Cross Section)

• The 1000 km Myth: A radar's maximum range is calculated using massive targets, such as a B-52 strategic bomber, a large aerial refueling tanker, or a commercial airliner, which have a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of over 40–100 m².
  
  
• The F-16's Reality: An F-16 is a very compact, aerodynamically clean fighter jet with an RCS of only 1 to 5 m². Because it reflects very little radar energy, the KJ-3000's realistic detection range for an F-16 is estimated to be between 350 and 450 km under optimal conditions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

2. The Radar Horizon (Curvature of the Earth)

• Radars operate on a strict line-of-sight basis because electromagnetic waves travel in straight lines. However, the Earth is curved.

• Even if the KJ-3000 is cruising at a high altitude of 30,000 feet (approx. 9,100 meters) and the F-16 is also flying high, at a distance of 600–1000 km, the F-16 will be physically hidden behind the curvature of the Earth (below the radar horizon). For a radar wave to reach an object 1,000 km away on a straight path, that object would have to be flying in the upper atmosphere or near-space.

From what a I read the KJ-3000 radar will have twice the power of the E-7 . Detection range of more than 500 m will be horizon limited. I find it very hard to believe it won’t be able to detect a f16?