PAF SAM based Air Defense System - News, Discussion & Updates

[MS Sandhu]

I wouldn’t hold my breath for GIDS Lomads yet, probably looking at surface launched SD10s

Is SD10 missile localized enough to go for wider applications of it?
Surface launched SD10 is not a bad solution if we can produce it at home .

 

[Cesur]

In my opinion it was our failure to proper use of our short range blastic and cruise missiles and loitering munition. Either due to less quantity or purpose was not defined. Quwa Article also highlighted ssoem weeknes.

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We should defend Brahmos current or future variants but we should have equivalent variants, in number and with deadly destruction power which can put same havoc on their strategic targets just like our PAF have proper strategy to counter IAF. It's potty that we have used multi barrel rocket launchers lately and before damage has been done. Command and control bunker should be moved deep into mountains as recent satellite images exposure of one at HQ seems very vulnerable.

We may have used fewer resources and faced funding related production shortfalls for certain weapons, but it doesn’t diminish the scale of damage we inflicted on the enemy.

While downing 7 of their aircraft is undeniably significant and prized, we often overlook other key achievements such as destroying their S-400 and BrahMos facilities, crippling a brigade headquarters, and the accomplishments of our army and special forces on the ground. Dozens of enemy soldiers were killed along the Line of Control, and we reportedly advanced 7–10 km across the LoC to seize posts and force them to raise white flags. If taking Kashmir is the end goal this is quite an achievement even if some consider it to be incremental

Of course there is room for improvement. I for one agree we should prepare better for BrahMos and consider building bases close to the mountains or further west or even underground where possible.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

In my opinion it was our failure to proper use of our short range ballistic and cruise missiles and loitering munition. Either due to less quantity or purpose was not defined. Quwa Article also highlighted ssoem weeknes.

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We should defend Brahmos current or future variants but we should have equivalent variants, in number and with deadly destruction power which can put same havoc on their strategic targets just like our PAF have proper strategy to counter IAF. It's potty that we have used multi barrel rocket launchers lately and before damage has been done. Command and control bunker should be moved deep into mountains as recent satellite images exposure of one at HQ seems very vulnerable.

Remember the word, "restraint". Our elite didn't want all out war so they fired Fatah rockets in response to Indian cruise missiles. N league ministers were already ready to stop in 7th May but Asim Munir wanted to fire some Fatah rockets. They obviously were surprised with Indian attacking first with cruise missiles.

PAF also crossed in to LOC on 10th May taking advantage of IAF being grounded but no bragging in press conference. But many Indian journalists on ground confirmed PAF aircrafts crossed LOC. Again sound like ceasefire deal.

This all shit show just look like drama that have backfired for Modi but made Asim Munir field marshal. Both sides fought for popularity show.

Pakistan should have fired some cruise missiles for tit for tit, let alone tit for tat instead of Fatah rockets. But it failed to do so and accepted USA ceasefire deal.

So first day advantage Pakistan for successfully killing 6-7 Indian jets which grounded IAF. And PAF crossing in to LOC and coming back after bombing them on 10th May.

PAF>>>>>>IAF

10th May advantage India as they used their best cruise missile while Pakistan responded with Fatah rockets.

 

[jburke]

BrahMos 2 hypersonic is in production at Lucknow factory. At Mach 10 carrying 500kg warhead, the missile is fire and forget. Together with the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT Kanpur), which has established India's first 24-metre-long Hypervelocity Expansion Tunnel Test Facility capable of generating flight speeds between Mach 5-10 simulating the hypersonic conditions encountered by Brahmos 2 hypersonic missile. The BrahMos hypersonic design was accomplished by Professor Mohammed Ibrahim Sugarno, Department of Aerospace Engineering and Centre for Lasers & Photonics at IIT Kanpur. It has now transferred to the production line at the newly setup Brahmos factory at Lucknow and will be produced at the rate of 50 per year.

 

[Venom]

Will keep you all posted. Just some finishing touches.

What podcast? Which YT channel?

 

[Quwa]

What podcast? Which YT channel?

It's on the main podcast platforms right now (Spotify, Amazon Music, etc), but you can also find it on the website.

Indo-Pak Conflict | The Fight Pakistan Wanted vs What It Got

Our analysts discuss how while Pakistan’s newly acquired HQ-9BEs from China helped, its air defence system had trouble stopping the BrahMos.

quwa.org

Hi @Quwa - looks like you have put the podcast on open access basis on the website, vs behind a paywall. Do you have Youtube channel? Would make it easier for people to listen to it off line versus the website? ( i appreciate you have made it available on a bunch of podcast services ).

I'm working on the YouTube side. Just trying to figure out the best practices for doing so without host/guest videos.

 

[Khanivore]

Hi,

There is an iota of COWARDICE in the hearts of pakistani generals---.

They are AFRAID to deliver the final blow when the enemy is down---.

If you look at their faces, demeanor, personality---they can definitely defend the nation---but cannot protect it from attacks---.

They can't give the final blow---they can't deliver the COUPE DE GRACE---.

They are EXTREMELY CASUAL in their interviews when talking about the enemy---.

They are taking the enemy as " NOTHING "---and for that reason they cannot FINISH THEM OFF---.

You’re not wrong -- there’s definitely a hesitancy at the top. Pakistan’s generals have shown they can defend, react, and contain damage under pressure. But when it comes to seizing the initiative and delivering the final blow, they consistently fall short. It’s a mindset issue -- rooted in over-caution, risk aversion, and perhaps a fear of escalation rather than a confidence in strategic dominance.

Very unfortunate.

The truth is, modern warfare rewards decisive, calculated offence, not passive containment. If PAF had the upper hand, it was a strategic opportunity that should’ve been exploited -- not just to break Indian momentum but to send a regional and global message. If roles were reversed, you can be sure India or Israel wouldn't have stopped halfway. Without a shadow of doubt.

Pakistan's top brass needs to move beyond Cold War-era thinking and into 21st-century hybrid warfare doctrine -- where perception, tempo, and control of the battlespace matter just as much as defence.

 

[Khanivore]

Remember the word, "restraint". Our elite didn't want all out war so they fired Fatah rockets in response to Indian cruise missiles. N league ministers were already ready to stop in 7th May but Asim Munir wanted to fire some Fatah rockets. They obviously were surprised with Indian attacking first with cruise missiles.

PAF also crossed in to LOC on 10th May taking advantage of IAF being grounded but no bragging in press conference. But many Indian journalists on ground confirmed PAF aircrafts crossed LOC. Again sound like ceasefire deal.

This all shit show just look like drama that have backfired for Modi but made Asim Munir field marshal. Both sides fought for popularity show.

Pakistan should have fired some cruise missiles for tit for tit, let alone tit for tat instead of Fatah rockets. But it failed to do so and accepted USA ceasefire deal.

So first day advantage Pakistan for successfully killing 6-7 Indian jets which grounded IAF. And PAF crossing in to LOC and coming back after bombing them on 10th May.

PAF>>>>>>IAF

10th May advantage India as they used their best cruise missile while Pakistan responded with Fatah rockets.

You're absolutely right to highlight the imbalance in escalation and optics. Pakistan had the operational edge after the initial shocking IAF losses and the PAF’s confident entry across the LoC on May 10th — but it didn't capitalise on that momentum. Instead of matching India's BrahMos strikes with equal or superior firepower (like Babur or Raad cruise missiles), the response was limited to Fatah rockets — tactically sound but strategically underwhelming.

A sign of weakness in leadership.

This showed restraint, yes, "let's play soft now" — but it also projected hesitation. In modern conflict, perception shapes deterrence. The PAF clearly shattered Indian air superiority, yet the state response pulled back just when it could've solidified a shift in regional dynamics.

Bloody frustrating.

The fact that a Trump-brokered ceasefire was accepted without extracting diplomatic or strategic gains adds to that frustration. And while Gen. Asim Munir did earn prestige domestically, the moment could’ve been leveraged far more aggressively at the regional level — both in military terms and psychological impact.

Bottom line: PAF performed brilliantly tactically. But politically and strategically, Pakistani leadership settled too early — and not on their terms. What an utter failure.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

You're absolutely right to highlight the imbalance in escalation and optics. Pakistan had the operational edge after the initial shocking IAF losses and the PAF’s confident entry across the LoC on May 10th — but it didn't capitalise on that momentum. Instead of matching India's BrahMos strikes with equal or superior firepower (like Babur or Raad cruise missiles), the response was limited to Fatah rockets — tactically sound but strategically underwhelming.

A sign of weakness in leadership.

This showed restraint, yes, "let's play soft now" — but it also projected hesitation. In modern conflict, perception shapes deterrence. The PAF clearly shattered Indian air superiority, yet the state response pulled back just when it could've solidified a shift in regional dynamics.

Bloody frustrating.

The fact that a Trump-brokered ceasefire was accepted without extracting diplomatic or strategic gains adds to that frustration. And while Gen. Asim Munir did earn prestige domestically, the moment could’ve been leveraged far more aggressively at the regional level — both in military terms and psychological impact.

Bottom line: PAF performed brilliantly tactically. But politically and strategically, Pakistani leadership settled too early — and not on their terms. What an utter failure.

Its almost like Pakistani side was behaving like “rational” while we were supposed to be crazy ones because of imbalance in conventional power.

 

[Bentley777]

They got in rationality too
much after noor khan base attack they should have gone absolutely offensive. Also the firing videos of Fattah was preplanned for something to show the local audience so they don't question where is our attack. The gov statements were also suggesting that they were very happy and satisfied with only 6-0 and wanted conflict to end. But india attacked again so they had to respond . Sorry to say but PA generals and gov looked in too much ambiguity and on backfoot of timely decision making. If PAF were allowed to do what they wanted you would have seen their hangers hit too i can assure you in total confidence but they were not allowed too. If i was there i would have made them pay too much for air base attack. Modi and its gov has no rationality he can order anything and you can counter it as there is saying "kutte ka sath kutta ban na parta ha" he Will only understand in his own language no matter what. Pak is not nepal or bhutan be confident that you can do it don't think about future so much that it can make you have unbearable losses. These lessons should be learned from recent conflict.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

They got in rationality too
much after noor khan base attack they should have gone absolutely offensive. Also the firing videos of Fattah was preplanned for something to show the local audience so they don't question where is our attack. The gov statements were also suggesting that they were very happy and satisfied with only 6-0 and wanted conflict to end. But india attacked again so they had to respond . Sorry to say but PA generals and gov looked in too much ambiguity and on backfoot of timely decision making. If PAF were allowed to do what they wanted you would have seen their hangers hit too i can assure you in total confidence but they were not allowed too. If i was there i would have made them pay too much for air base attack. Modi and its gov has no rationality he can order anything and you can counter it as there is saying "kutte ka sath kutta ban na parta ha" he Will only understand in his own language no matter what. Pak is not nepal or bhutan be confident that you can do it don't think about future so much that it can make you have unbearable losses. These lessons should be learned from recent conflict.

India attacked again because Pakistan kept saying retaliation is yet to come. Aka firing some fatah rockets.

India once knew that Pakistan was not interested in early ceasefire started firing cruise missiles.

 

[iblini]

after going through multiple pages, I found most of the members are suggesting decade old Chinese systems, when drone, loitering munitions were not into consideration back then, PLA are inducting multiple layers and implementing new solution for point and mobile AD, maybe Pakistan can borrowed some ideas from there.

The Chinese armed forces has been working on drone/anti drone solution and held meeting with state giant and civilian drone companies which involved hundreds of expert every year for eight years now, I am sure experiences can be shared between two countries.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

after going through multiple pages, I found most of the members are suggesting decade old Chinese systems, when drone, loitering munitions were not into consideration back then, PLA are inducting multiple layers and implementing new solution for point and mobile AD, maybe Pakistan can borrowed some ideas from there.

The Chinese armed forces has been working on drone/anti drone solution and held meeting with state giant and civilian drone companies which involved hundreds of expert every year for eight years now, I am sure experiences can be shared between two countries.

Can you name and describe some of these new anti drone systems?

 

[Khanivore]

after going through multiple pages, I found most of the members are suggesting decade old Chinese systems, when drone, loitering munitions were not into consideration back then, PLA are inducting multiple layers and implementing new solution for point and mobile AD, maybe Pakistan can borrowed some ideas from there.

The Chinese armed forces has been working on drone/anti drone solution and held meeting with state giant and civilian drone companies which involved hundreds of expert every year for eight years now, I am sure experiences can be shared between two countries.

Good observation -- and I think you are absolutely right. A lot of the legacy systems being mentioned aren’t designed with today's drone-saturated battlefield in mind. The PLA has clearly shifted gears, investing in multi-layered, mobile, and modular air defence that can respond to swarms, loitering munitions, and low-RCS threats.

Pakistan should definitely look at lessons from China’s drone/anti-drone integration model -- not just at the hardware level but also at the doctrine and industrial level, like how PLA collaborates with civilian drone firms and dual-use tech ecosystems. That kind of national synergy is still missing in Pakistan -- but I think Pakistan will get there.

It would be valuable to co-develop or adapt systems like the LD-3000, HQ-17AE with Companion UGV (72 ready-to-launch micro missiles on the turret), anti-drone EW platforms, and Metal Storm-type CIWS point defences, especially for protecting mobile SAMs, radar units, and frontline depots. Even short-range “pop-up” defences with AI-assisted targeting could tilt the balance in contested airspace.

The battlefield is evolving fast -- and Pakistan must evolve with it.

This is the "Companion UGV" for the HQ-17AE SHORAD batteries...

 

[Khanivore]

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