Pakistan-Af: Operation Khyber Storm

[RescueRanger]

Well cakewalk or not they are effective while we are not.

With respect WHAT do you know about "effective"? A smaller agile force traversing large swathes of unmonitored, often inaccessible terrain to launch a surprise attack on an opposing force will always have the element of surprise.

Listen if you are going to glorify the Terrorists here. I mean it GTFO, we have lost enough good people already. I don't have time to entertain this garbage.

 

[RescueRanger]

And the resistance to that is internal. Like intelligence sharing and fusion, NACTA Was supposed to be that (correct me if I am wrong). But the premier agency doesn’t want anyone else to have that overarching role (again correct me if I am wrong).

Also, they were supposed to build 850 forts and more posts in between. That’s pretty much one at every couple of kilometers. Has it been done or sabotaged too.

The problem is we sabotage things ourselves from border control, to intelligence fusion, to NAP and then go on firebrand tirades to blame everyone else and their mothers.

1. Ahh NACTA - the great while elephant in the room. NACTA was supposed to be a lot of things... But ended up delivering very little.
Remind me again what was moeed yusuf promising about NACTA? Instead managed to get himself embroiled in the whole GB affair - something beyond his remit. NACTA is just inefficient - it needs a good shakedown and the fat needs to be trimmed.

2. And the resistance to that is internal. (yes this is a serious headache) 2025 - promises on NCC and citizen cadre - still undelivered.

3. But the premier agency doesn’t want anyone else to have that overarching role (again correct me if I am wrong).
^ This premier agency is full of blowhards... Believe me, they do not like suggestions - it is populated with blowhards - which is why I wouldn't mind the fat being trimmed like a sharma...

4. Also, they were supposed to build 850 forts and more posts in between.
^Lol...



5. The problem is we sabotage things ourselves from border control, to intelligence fusion, to NAP and then go on firebrand tirades to blame everyone else and their mothers.

^ yes I fully agree with you. It is criminal.

 

[uknwit]

With respect WHAT do you know about "effective"? A smaller agile force traversing large swathes of unmonitored, often inaccessible terrain to launch a surprise attack on an opposing force will always have the element of surprise.

Listen if you are going to glorify the Terrorists here. I mean it GTFO, we have lost enough good people already. I don't have time to entertain this garbage.

I dont think you read my post with a clear mind while its astounishing that your a moderator who is not being moderate at all.



What i am saying and said in that post is that our problems are way bigger then just border security. The afghans been fighting for decades thats there bread and butter its no use in fighting people like those we will have to come up with a diff strategy all together which includes inside and outside overhauling

 

[EternalMortal]

HM&MP police came into existence due to the lengthy of the the original motorway and the cross-jurisdictional headaches of different police forces having to police it. This problem requires a similar solution.

Leave fighting forces as force multipliers and in a RRF capacity - border patrol and enforcement should fall to a new body.

Best way to do that would be to reform FC & Rangers. FC as a border force for all borders that mans & surveils the border & does cross-border intelligence and/or raids. Rangers as a dedicated pan-provincial COIN organization with cross border capabilities if FC doesn't want to do it. federal constabulary as a support. Army should get out of COIN.

 

[NaqsheYaar]

i am sorry it had to be done , u need to reply when u see such blatantly wrong and harmful claims . really PAF killing 30 innocent people

You probably don't know much about these things, it happened in swat operation, the pilot is from Lahore, he was flying the f16, dropped bombs on civilians, did toba, never flew an f16 again, he was sword holder from Sargodha, now he flies AWACS and stuff..

 

[Bilal]

1. Ahh NACTA - the great while elephant in the room. NACTA was supposed to be a lot of things... But ended up delivering very little.
Remind me again what was moeed yusuf promising about NACTA? Instead managed to get himself embroiled in the whole GB affair - something beyond his remit. NACTA is just inefficient - it needs a good shakedown and the fat needs to be trimmed.

2. And the resistance to that is internal. (yes this is a serious headache) 2025 - promises on NCC and citizen cadre - still undelivered.

3. But the premier agency doesn’t want anyone else to have that overarching role (again correct me if I am wrong).
^ This premier agency is full of blowhards... Believe me, they do not like suggestions - it is populated with blowhards - which is why I wouldn't mind the fat being trimmed like a sharma...

4. Also, they were supposed to build 850 forts and more posts in between.
^Lol...

View attachment 152980

5. The problem is we sabotage things ourselves from border control, to intelligence fusion, to NAP and then go on firebrand tirades to blame everyone else and their mothers.

^ yes I fully agree with you. It is criminal.

THIS my brother is what I was pointing to right from the beginning.

Yeh maslay hal karien, truck ki batti ke peechay na lagai (talking about the people in power not you).

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Did you read the FT article I posted ? It says Taliban are unwilling to tackle TTP partially for ideological reasons but more so as leverage against Pakistan to get diplomatic recognition and to keep TTP away from ISIS-K.

So instead of multiple waves of bombing Afghanistan and expelling refugees, which have proven ineffective, a better way could be to diplomatically recognize Taliban and work with it against ISIS-K. In return you can then ask Taliban to let go of TTP. The Taliban remember how Pakistan dumped them overnight and want reassurances to remain in power.

The faujis are misreading everything and again acting like wild bulls in a china shop.

You are intelligent men so not sure why you think like this. Afghan refugees cannot be given citizenship so they have to go back.

Taliban saying they cannot do anything against TTP for ideological reason is enough justification for Pakistan to do cross border strikes.

Now don't tell me this problem will be solved by recognising Taliban and they will suddenly do 180 uturn. i mean come on

 

[RescueRanger]

astounishing that your a moderator who is not being moderate at all.

Am I not "moderate" enough for you? too bad.

The afghans been fighting for decades

So have we... Shall we revisit the timeline?

thats there bread and butter

It is the bread, butter, water and air of our armed forces too.

its no use in fighting people like those we will have to come up with a diff strategy all together which includes inside and outside overhauling

I hear a lot of "shoulda woulda coulda" but no real concrete solutions.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

For those who seek some context... the issue is larger than just regional... it is geopolitical in nature... when orange clown brought up Bagram... it was not out of the blue... there is a parallel tract for American presence and decades of Pakistani investment at stakes. When US left after the collapse os Soviet Union it had on its part closed a chapter... murdered the Pakistani General and sanctioned the state... yet the undercurrents in policy making were still at it... devising coming decades of American posture in the region and in that Pakistan would actually be reduced further and India propped up as the regional hegemon and balance between an emergent China. The GWOT had to serve its purpose however it became a quagmire... the series of wars in Mideast didn't transpire or deliver intended results...
A series of changes in that regard have now pushed India a notch down... especially when it is not only despondent but incompetent. That new role will transpire in coming years... it will seek to diminish both Indians and Chinese simultaneously... a rapprochement between China and India is highly unlikely due in part because of their inherent distrust but competition often in the same markets and products economically and politically in spheres of influence. That doesn't however mean that Pakistan automatically gets a pass, in fact ... a counterbalance in US presence in Afghanistan ensures continued subservience and management of elites... only the uber cucks hold any position of consequence!

As I said just like nothing went as intended there is even less likelihood of things becoming predictable any time soon... especially in a volatile region such as this....

 

[Waz]

It's clear that attack on the FC pushed over a red line. The TTP are now being hit everywhere they are.

 

[RescueRanger]

THIS my brother is what I was pointing to right from the beginning.

Yeh maslay hal karien, truck ki batti ke peechay na lagai (talking about the people in power not you).

Yaar let me tell you a story - around 2009 I was involved in training the rescue service in Mansehra (rescue 1122 didn't exist back then in the area - so we trained some people from the local DCO office).

Photo: The original search and rescue team in Mansehra made up of all community volunteers - tailors, builders, plumbers, some gov servants and the great man in the middle Harir Shah (great man - great humanitarian).

Anyway - so we trained these people right - and the project was funded by a German Government Agency known as GTZ - it is now rebranded to GIZ. Anyways... On the last day we carry out a disaster drill - and the DCO invites the media and everyone else and its a grand affair.

The Germans are really happy because they have just seen their investment start to bear fruit - and they even donated a Search and Rescue Vehicle to the local government - worth Rs. 1 Crore.

So the German head of the mission was a chap by the name of Christian Muller - after the exercise and lunch party - I had a chance to meet Christian again - we were having a nice casual chat and he remarked:

"I don't know if I should laugh or cry" and I inquired... What is the matter?
to which he replied "I have now lived in Pakistan for 3 years - I have learned basic urdu and pashto and fallen in love with your country and your people who are some of the most pure and hospitable people I have met, but your leaders.... "scoffs"..."

"Do you know what the DCO asked me after the lunch meeting?" "He said, thank you for funding the training of our rescue team, equipping them and donating the rescue vehicle" - "But you see, I was wondering, if your agency could see to donating a years worth of cash for fuel that would be most appreciated"...

^
Straight from the horses mouth.

I felt this small as a Pakistani upon hearing this.
*****
This is what is wrong with Pakistan.

 

[uknwit]

Am I not "moderate" enough for you? too bad.


So have we... Shall we revisit the timeline?

It is the bread, butter, water and air of our armed forces too.

I hear a lot of "shoulda woulda coulda" but no real concrete solutions.

1- Yeah your not. If you can find any of my post from start to finish on this thread you wont find 1 post on which i sympathise with the terrorist. I just dont agree with out and you start calling me terrorist sympathiser like an Indian.

2-Oh the timeline if do revisit that make sure to point out the changing enemy after every decade pointing straight towards the predicament we are currently in. And dont forget if Nato took 20 years with infinite resources and top of the line equipment your overestimating our ability to do so.

3-The armed forces have made Alot of sacrifices cant deny that fact but the short sighted imposed/forced/without public approval policy making did screw us in the longterm.

4- The concreate solution like i said in the previous post is national reconciliation with all the stake holders involved and coming to a decision that everybody would stay in their domain and wont meddle in others affairs The Tri-facta rule Judiciary looking into justice sytem without inteference.
Political parties managing the internal and ezternal politics through free fair elections and solving their issue on the political grounds themselves without outside interference.
Armed forces looking at internal and external security without meddling with anything mentioned above.

That way you get a justice system that is independent increasing peoples confidence in it decresing the crminal or illegal activities automatically

The polical parties facing each other in political arena and not through proxies or militant wings, while creating middle ground (which is what politicians do) which would create stronger policies with the peoples approval which interm would be longterm and long lasting instead of half a*s and being imposed through strenght which always creates resistance within your own people.

The security domain internal and external goes completely under 1 institution. They have less things to worry about since they will be focused on one thing and one thing only according to the policies made by the chosen representatives.

 

[Bilal]

Yaar let me tell you a story - around 2009 I was involved in training the rescue service in Mansehra (rescue 1122 didn't exist back then in the area - so we trained some people from the local DCO office).
View attachment 152982
Photo: The original search and rescue team in Mansehra made up of all community volunteers - tailors, builders, plumbers, some gov servants and the great man in the middle Harir Shah (great man - great humanitarian).

Anyway - so we trained these people right - and the project was funded by a German Government Agency known as GTZ - it is now rebranded to GIZ. Anyways... On the last day we carry out a disaster drill - and the DCO invites the media and everyone else and its a grand affair.

The Germans are really happy because they have just seen their investment start to bear fruit - and they even donated a Search and Rescue Vehicle to the local government - worth Rs. 1 Crore.

So the German head of the mission was a chap by the name of Christian Muller - after the exercise and lunch party - I had a chance to meet Christian again - we were having a nice casual chat and he remarked:

"I don't know if I should laugh or cry" and I inquired... What is the matter?
to which he replied "I have now lived in Pakistan for 3 years - I have learned basic urdu and pashto and fallen in love with your country and your people who are some of the most pure and hospitable people I have met, but your leaders.... "scoffs"..."

"Do you know what the DCO asked me after the lunch meeting?" "He said, thank you for funding the training of our rescue team, equipping them and donating the rescue vehicle" - "But you see, I was wondering, if your agency could see to donating a years worth of cash for fuel that would be most appreciated"...

^
Straight from the horses mouth.

I felt this small as a Pakistani upon hearing this.
*****
This is what is wrong with Pakistan.

Hence the problem lies somewhere else, somewhere entrenched much deeper and more formidable than any TTP.

It’s the callousness of knowing that allowing something or scuttling something will lead to death and destruction in my country but my personal gain trumping all other considerations.

Abh kuchh bolo tau chand bakray ajai ge bhain bhain kerne, tum ghaddar ho, cultist ho. Same story for last 80 years.

Now I understand the cynicism and resignation to the situation of our elders. I am becoming the same, from a once hot headed, wide eyed naive idealist.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I dont think you read my post with a clear mind while its astounishing that your a moderator who is not being moderate at all.



What i am saying and said in that post is that our problems are way bigger then just border security. The afghans been fighting for decades thats there bread and butter its no use in fighting people like those we will have to come up with a diff strategy all together which includes inside and outside overhauling

You can't change the Afgans as per Allama Iqbal. They didn't recognize Pakistan for a reason. With the help of technology you can make it excruciatingly painful it for them to attack Pskistan. Turkey has shown how to do it against much more sophisticated terrorists in a similarly difficult mountainous geography....

 

[RescueRanger]

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The great leader at it again

Bahi let it go - he is in jail - all he can do is tweet. Lets focus on bigger fish for now.