Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Oscar]

now lets turn that into a gain for Pakistan, how it it help that the Indians, Pakistan biggest thorn is doing exercise with the Malaysians a friend of Pakistan?


the mki's and mig29's are as capable as the f16's now single use standalone and highly understood by the other side especially since 2019. the only thing the f16 has a advantage of the the aim120 and even now it cant come close to firing them.

I dont understand your point.

RMAF links arent exclusive nor inclusive to Malaysian government friendships and so on.
Pak Mil has deep ties with US military despite ups and downs but on a general scale the state of Pakistan is not a preferred ally for the US government.

Each relationship drives a specific mechanism and leads to different gains/losses for each party.

I am not sure regarding single use - F-16s still have a very different role and provide a serious deterrent to the Indian fleet - the majority of it still being outgunned by the AIM-120 other than 33 aircraft.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

I for one think that F-16 will be relegated to interdiction and strike role with push for integration of more air to ground munitions.

 

[Michael]

the Chinese are in the eygpt doesnt make there relationship deep. there site a muppet state but who now knows is behind the strings.

The latest news is that the PLAAF and the Egyptian Air Force are currently conducting a new military exercise.
What's different this time is that the PLAAF has deployed J-16 heavy fighter jets to Egypt. This marks the first time China has sent heavy fighter jets to the region.
According to known records, previously, the PLAAF had only deployed J-16 heavy fighter jets to Pakistan and Russia for military exercises with other countries.
This is the third time.

So please don't use your own views and thinking to predict the actions of Chinese people.

 

[BlueMarlin]

The latest news is that the PLAAF and the Egyptian Air Force are currently conducting a new military exercise.
What's different this time is that the PLAAF has deployed J-16 heavy fighter jets to Egypt. This marks the first time China has sent heavy fighter jets to the region.
According to known records, previously, the PLAAF had only deployed J-16 heavy fighter jets to Pakistan and Russia for military exercises with other countries.
This is the third time.

So please don't use your own views and thinking to predict the actions of Chinese people.

all of what youve said holds no context, and i already know this. the point im making here is that a state like eygpt is not a strategic partner, yet china sends a large fleet of aircraft there for exercises.

also the chinese state and the chinese people are two different entities and shouldn’t be considered the same.

 

[Michael]

the point im making here is that a state like eygpt is not a strategic partner, yet china sends a large fleet of aircraft there for exercises.

In 1956, Egypt formally established diplomatic relations with the PRC, becoming the first Arab and African country to do so.
In 1999, bilateral relations were upgraded to a strategic cooperative partnership.
In 2014, they were further upgraded to a comprehensive strategic partnership.
In 2024, the two countries issued a joint statement agreeing to elevate their relations towards the goal of building a China-Egypt community with a shared future in the new era.

Your point of view is invalid.

Military cooperation between China and Egypt is very close, with increasing frequency and level of interaction between the two sides.

You cannot belittle China-Egypt cooperation simply because you dislike Egypt. Similarly, cooperation between China and Pakistan is not affected by cooperation between Pakistan and the United States.

also the chinese state and the chinese people are two different entities and shouldn’t be considered the same.

Are you trying to split China? There is no serious split between the government and the people in China.

If you insist on talking about public opinion, I suggest you go to Chinese social media and experience it for yourself, instead of reading nonsense from some Western English-language media.

 

[Yasser76]

In 1956, Egypt formally established diplomatic relations with the PRC, becoming the first Arab and African country to do so.
In 1999, bilateral relations were upgraded to a strategic cooperative partnership.
In 2014, they were further upgraded to a comprehensive strategic partnership.
In 2024, the two countries issued a joint statement agreeing to elevate their relations towards the goal of building a China-Egypt community with a shared future in the new era.

Your point of view is invalid.

Military cooperation between China and Egypt is very close, with increasing frequency and level of interaction between the two sides.

You cannot belittle China-Egypt cooperation simply because you dislike Egypt. Similarly, cooperation between China and Pakistan is not affected by cooperation between Pakistan and the United States.

Are you trying to split China? There is no serious split between the government and the people in China.

If you insist on talking about public opinion, I suggest you go to Chinese social media and experience it for yourself, instead of reading nonsense from some Western English-language media.

What has this got to do with PAF dude?

 

[Michael]

What has this got to do with PAF dude?

My bad!

I'm forcibly bringing the issue back to the topic of this thread:

PLAAF's J-16 heavy fighter jets and other military aircraft, which were dispatched to Egypt for military exercises, made a stopover at an air force base in Pakistan.
Now that's related to PAF, right?

 

[Ali_Baba]

I for one think that F-16 will be relegated to interdiction and strike role with push for integration of more air to ground munitions.

To date, PAF has never integrated anything "locally" onto the F16s other than dumb bombs, and as the F16 heads into the twilight of its career in the PAF, I don't see the PAF starting to try to integrate any new weapons onto its F16 fleet, not even purchasing "new" types of weapons from the USA directly.

PAF has also not purchased any Turkish based weapons that are already integrated onto the F16's from them, which I would have expected at this stage, but that has not been the case.

Additionally, PAF has no technical capability(source code) that allows it to integrate anything other than dumb bombs, and unless it takes the Ukrainian approach of using iPads to integrate new weapons, ( we have never seen PAF apply that level of creativity and ingenuity to upgrading its platforms in the last few decades - even the Mirages were done with OEM's ) I think it is fair to assume the F16 platform will not get much in the way of new weapon types.

I do not see any change in the configuration of the PAF F16s as they go into retirement, they will become a 3rd tier force in the PAF (behind the J10CE and JF17 Block III's ) and remain "as-is" for that retirement stretch.

 

[Yasser76]

To date, PAF has never integrated anything "locally" onto the F16s other than dumb bombs, and as the F16 heads into the twilight of its career in the PAF, I don't see the PAF starting to try to integrate any new weapons onto its F16 fleet, not even purchasing "new" types of weapons from the USA directly.

PAF has also not purchased any Turkish based weapons that are already integrated onto the F16's from them, which I would have expected at this stage, but that has not been the case.

Additionally, PAF has no technical capability(source code) that allows it to integrate anything other than dumb bombs, and unless it takes the Ukrainian approach of using iPads to integrate new weapons, ( we have never seen PAF apply that level of creativity and ingenuity to upgrading its platforms in the last few decades - even the Mirages were done with OEM's ) I think it is fair to assume the F16 platform will not get much in the way of new weapon types.

I do not see any change in the configuration of the PAF F16s as they go into retirement, they will become a 3rd tier force in the PAF (behind the J10CE and JF17 Block III's ) and remain "as-is" for that retirement stretch.

Yeah, just a year ago after CAS visited US and Trump fell in love with us I would have thought V upgrades, even brand new V's and a modernisation and expansion of the F-16 force was very much on the cards, even more so now after the Makkah pact. However I think you may well be right, PAF seems to be doing the bare minimum to keep these birds flying (contracts for engine overhaul, updates to Link 16 etc etc)

May 7th may well have pushed PAF to go all in with Chinese systems. Even consider when we flew excort for the Iranians over Iran, the main danger was from Israeli F-16s and F-15s. Instead of flying F-16s as well to ensure no blue on blue, we few the J-10C.

I think PAF will go all in with J series of JF-17, J-10C. J-35

How the numbers mix up between all three is anyone's guess. Right now though we seem to be supplying Azeris we have had no new squadron conversions for at least 2 years now since the last Sqd took on JF-17C

New fighter deliveries have slowed down, as now I would have expected the last F-7PG unit to have retired and at least another Mirage unit to have retired.

 

[BlueMarlin]

In 1956, Egypt formally established diplomatic relations with the PRC, becoming the first Arab and African country to do so.
In 1999, bilateral relations were upgraded to a strategic cooperative partnership.
In 2014, they were further upgraded to a comprehensive strategic partnership.
In 2024, the two countries issued a joint statement agreeing to elevate their relations towards the goal of building a China-Egypt community with a shared future in the new era.

Your point of view is invalid.

Military cooperation between China and Egypt is very close, with increasing frequency and level of interaction between the two sides.

You cannot belittle China-Egypt cooperation simply because you dislike Egypt. Similarly, cooperation between China and Pakistan is not affected by cooperation between Pakistan and the United States.

Are you trying to split China? There is no serious split between the government and the people in China.

If you insist on talking about public opinion, I suggest you go to Chinese social media and experience it for yourself, instead of reading nonsense from some Western English-language media.

calm down, your misinterpretation of what i said is a bit too much there. i could counter all your points but i wont give you the line you so desperately crave.

any way moving on....

 

[Ali_Baba]

Yeah, just a year ago after CAS visited US and Trump fell in love with us I would have thought V upgrades, even brand new V's and a modernisation and expansion of the F-16 force was very much on the cards, even more so now after the Makkah pact. However I think you may well be right, PAF seems to be doing the bare minimum to keep these birds flying (contracts for engine overhaul, updates to Link 16 etc etc)

May 7th may well have pushed PAF to go all in with Chinese systems. Even consider when we flew excort for the Iranians over Iran, the main danger was from Israeli F-16s and F-15s. Instead of flying F-16s as well to ensure no blue on blue, we few the J-10C.

I think PAF will go all in with J series of JF-17, J-10C. J-35

How the numbers mix up between all three is anyone's guess. Right now though we seem to be supplying Azeris we have had no new squadron conversions for at least 2 years now since the last Sqd took on JF-17C

New fighter deliveries have slowed down, as now I would have expected the last F-7PG unit to have retired and at least another Mirage unit to have retired.

Given that the JF17C line was rated for producing up to 50 units of the JF17 per year, has the slow induction been more to do with the lack of money to do PAF upgrades, then the Azerbaijan order ? Even if the capacity was reduced to 25 units/year, can Azerbaijan absorb 25 units per year?

The fact that PAF cannot retire the F7's right now is odd for sure. Something is not quite right in the fleet modernization right now on the most critical service in the armed forces of Pakistan..

btw - I do not see PAF ordering more J10CE's at all beyond the 20 it has now. I think they will sell them back to China(or another J10CE customer) and get rid of it as a type and go in heavy on the J-35AE. The J10CE's are not multirole fighters in the PAF, but air superiority, and the J-35AE can fulfil that role better and they were only purchased as an emergency order to counter the Rafale.

 

[BlueMarlin]

Yeah, just a year ago after CAS visited US and Trump fell in love with us I would have thought V upgrades, even brand new V's and a modernisation and expansion of the F-16 force was very much on the cards, even more so now after the Makkah pact. However I think you may well be right, PAF seems to be doing the bare minimum to keep these birds flying (contracts for engine overhaul, updates to Link 16 etc etc)

May 7th may well have pushed PAF to go all in with Chinese systems. Even consider when we flew excort for the Iranians over Iran, the main danger was from Israeli F-16s and F-15s. Instead of flying F-16s as well to ensure no blue on blue, we few the J-10C.

I think PAF will go all in with J series of JF-17, J-10C. J-35

How the numbers mix up between all three is anyone's guess. Right now though we seem to be supplying Azeris we have had no new squadron conversions for at least 2 years now since the last Sqd took on JF-17C

New fighter deliveries have slowed down, as now I would have expected the last F-7PG unit to have retired and at least another Mirage unit to have retired.

the current direction is pakistan is going into is procuring chinese equipment. its a no brainier. the ease of access to domestic variants of modern equipment, with the ability to integrate them into a network mesh so to speakn is a unique scenario only avaliable to a few countries. the yanks or Europeans wont give pakistan this capability in its dizziest day dreams. the indians want to do this by getting the source codes for the rafale but arent getting even after dangling a 100+ rafale order.

personally i would keep the f16 and use them in its current capacity and eventually retire them.

 

[BlueMarlin]

I dont understand your point.

RMAF links arent exclusive nor inclusive to Malaysian government friendships and so on.
Pak Mil has deep ties with US military despite ups and downs but on a general scale the state of Pakistan is not a preferred ally for the US government.

Each relationship drives a specific mechanism and leads to different gains/losses for each party.

I am not sure regarding single use - F-16s still have a very different role and provide a serious deterrent to the Indian fleet - the majority of it still being outgunned by the AIM-120 other than 33 aircraft.

my point is pakistan can learn the capabilities of the mki/mig29 and indian air tactics from the malaysians. then againtheres not much to learn from them.

us/pakistan ties are close but are doesnt hold much value. pakistan cant even get the zulu's delivered. pakistan has had a "good" time with republican presidents .

the f16's are not capable of being a front line fighter on the indian border. the rafale closed that gap regardless of the number of rafales with more to come in inevitably.

 

[Oscar]

my point is pakistan can learn the capabilities of the mki/mig29 and indian air tactics from the malaysians. then againtheres not much to learn from them.

us/pakistan ties are close but are doesnt hold much value. pakistan cant even get the zulu's delivered. pakistan has had a "good" time with republican presidents .

the f16's are not capable of being a front line fighter on the indian border. the rafale closed that gap regardless of the number of rafales with more to come in inevitably.

Malays have no interest in giving you any capabilities of the MKM - many of those pilots also have close ties to the US - and also go on exchange.
Doesnt mean they reveal how to fight their jet.