Pakistan Asking Afghans to Accept Durand line is Wrong as per the head of Tehreek e Tahaffuz e Ayeen

[Blain2]

Then please help me understand the lack of consistency in Pakistani military establishment’s "policies". Afghan Taliban used to be the good guys in the 90s until they weren’t during US war on terror. Then they were the good guys again when Western / India backed Ghani government collapsed as Afghan Taliban took over Kabul. Now, they are back to being the bad guys once more.

There is no such thing as "consistency" in foreign policies. No country has any consistency in their policies. Have you seen what the US has done to the NATO/Quad and what not? An entire 90 degree turn on allies of the past.

Did the US not talk to Taliban despite parroting for decades the policy "we don't negotiate with terrorists"?

What happened to India's past policies on Taliban? Full 180 turn now. What happened to their BD policies of the past? Nowhere to be seen now.

Our policies are shaped by our threat perceptions. Any country that is rigid in its policies is bound to fail. Strategy and policy require elasticity and Pakistan has shown that it will adjust as the situation requires it.

The only place where we should have consistent policies is our fiscal management. That will yield results but that is a topic for another thread.

Last, Pakistan is not in the business of this silly "good guys/bad guys" classification. We just work with whosoever is aligned with our interests. If tomorrow, Taliban stop TTP from attacking us, the relations are back on.

 

[Blain2]

Technically that is part of the problem that the state created by continuing the British system for the area.

Additionally, because there was an active “pan-NWFP” ideal from Zia era - the porus border was coupled with political agents being advised for promoting cross marriages and other exchanges.

These were policies thought up in Aabpara - but also whispered in parliament, bureaucracy and approved by PM house(during Benazirs era - Sharif was too much of a gaggu to really give useful input). One has to give her credit to be the only PM(besides IK in certain aspects) who could intellectually leave the generals speechless.

So it is the result of these policies that is being reaped - many myopic. While convenient and truthful to blame the establishment it ignores all the other “Good Idea sir” types including those in parliament and bureaucrats.

But I state here - while my views on this overstepping by military in deciding these state border policies is clear - keep in mind that given needs Saddam was to quote rumsfeld(is it?) “Was a sonofavich, but he was our sonafavich”
So the same with the Taliban many knew they were unpredictable nutjobs - but they were considered Pakistan’s “nutjobs”.

Lastly, the Taliban generation that Pakistan directly helped including militarily in the 90s was mostly pounded to oblivion with JDAMs and 30mm Cannon. The next generation only remembers Pakistan selling them out and those are the ones running the show.

This generation has older context on Loi-Afghan fed to them but no one to give them context on their overall history.

I get the first part, but this, "The next generation only remembers Pakistan selling them out and those are the ones running the show."

When did Pakistan exactly sell this bunch out? Pakistan ensured they remained in Afghanistan while Pakistan orchestrated their survival by making itself the target of the West, a la, running with the hare and hunting with the hounds honors. Then Pakistan lobbied on their behalf to get them a seat in Doha after the American departure and got them support from Qatar, UAE, KSA and even Tukey and China. All of this happened within the past 10 years so this is not about the old guard and the new in Taliban.

At no point has Pakistan ever sold these bastards out. Yes, we had our favorites, so did every other power around Afghanistan. No shame in that. The issue is one of indoctrination to their mission of spreading their takfiri version of a system around Afghanistan and that plan cannot happen without Pakistan. Thus the ongoing destabilization effort on their part. This isn't about someone's personal enmity with Pakistan for being sold out. It is about the national policy of the Takifiri Emirate of Afghanistan (TEA). This is why they cannot wean themselves off TTP and operate on basis of good neighborly relations with Pakistan.

 

[Oscar]

I get the first part, but this, "The next generation only remembers Pakistan selling them out and those are the ones running the show."

When did Pakistan exactly sell this bunch out? Pakistan ensured they remained in Afghanistan while Pakistan orchestrated their survival by making itself the target of the West, A la, running with the hare and hunting with the hounds honors. Then Pakistan lobbied on their behalf to get them a seat in Doha after the American departure and got them support from Qatar, UAE, KSA and even Tukey and China. All of this happened within the past 10 years so this is not about the old guard and the new in Taliban.

At no point has Pakistan ever sold these bastards out. Yes, we had our favorites, so did every other power around Afghanistan. No shame in that. The issue is one of indoctrination to their mission of spreading their takfiri version of a system around Afghanistan and that plan cannot happen without Pakistan. Thus the ongoing destabilization effort on their part. This isn't about someone's personal enmity with Pakistan for being sold out. It is about the national policy of the Takifiri Emirate of Afghanistan (TEA). This is why they cannot wean themselves off TTP and operate on good neighborly relations with Pakistan.

Hard to bundle the Taliban as one unified entity
Pakistan was given the “rock and a hard place” option.
It chose to immediately evacuate its closest relationships within the Shura.
It then proceeded to selectively block access for other groups and actively allowed the US to massacre the remaining Taliban en masse who in their limited understanding were expecting Pakistan to at least stay out of the fight.

Pakistan did all the lobbying for its controlling stake in the Taliban - but those it left behind, those it captured and gave up to the Americans - that impression is what this new guard carries. So it is about Pakistan’s waning influence on the overall Taliban of which this new guard is the majority

 

[Forsvaret]

If tomorrow, Taliban stop TTP from attacking us, the relations are back on.

So basically, Afghan Taliban are only "bad" temporarily. If tomorrow, their interests align with Pakistan’s, then we’d no longer consider people like Achakzai or Afridi "anti-state"?

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Sounds like narco terrorist heaven in that terrain. The Mexicans would love a border like that with the US.

You are not in civilized Europe. You are not bordering Switzerland and Luxemborg.

You paid a very heavy price. It should have been militarized like LOC.

Yeah lets have EU style border in middle of warzone. KPK “traders” will find alternative way of living, one which is legal and honest. I only see Pakistan GDP increasing once smuggling end.

 

[Oscar]

Both Benazir and Imran Khan studied in British universities. Pakistani generals were / are simply NO match to their intellectual capabilities. Hence why one of them was assassinated and the other is on his way to meet the same fate in prison…

That is very typical in the subcontinent . If you find someone superior and if you are insecure but have power you will try to finish them off.

 

[Oscar]

Imran Khan is still the party chairman of PTI, so yeah he can change appointments during the little time he gets to meet with his relatives and lawyers in prison. But he is still not allowed to give any directions to Afridi, despite court orders, because military establishment in Pakistan is above the law.

Etc etc is irrelevant
Imran Khan CHOSE Afridi.
Rest of your explanation is pointless whataboutism.
That’s like me saying I chose a particular car for my family but since I cannot drive it everyday it is causing maintenance and drivability issues.

You chose the bloody car! Be honest in holding him accountable if your obsessive passion is to hold the establishment accountable.

 

[Forsvaret]

Imran Khan CHOSE Afridi.

So what? Ayub was also chosen by someone. So was Yahya, Zia, Musharaf all the way to the current military dictator Asim Muneer. If they can ALL be forgiven under the "constitution", why not a single civilian like Afridi?

 

[Blain2]

Hard to bundle the Taliban as one unified entity
Pakistan was given the “rock and a hard place” option.
It chose to immediately evacuate its closest relationships within the Shura.
It then proceeded to selectively block access for other groups and actively allowed the US to massacre the remaining Taliban en masse who in their limited understanding were expecting Pakistan to at least stay out of the fight.

Pakistan did all the lobbying for its controlling stake in the Taliban - but those it left behind, those it captured and gave up to the Americans - that impression is what this new guard carries. So it is about Pakistan’s waning influence on the overall Taliban of which this new guard is the majority

Almost all of the ones running the shots in the current Taliban set up are from the group who were hosted and recuperated in Pakistan.

I can guarantee, this is not about "wrongs done". This is about an ideological change. No enmity of the first type lasts in statecraft. Countries look for converged interests in times of peace. The ONLY reason there isn't peace on Durand Line is because exporting the Taliban's ideological gains in Afghanistan into Pakistan is part of this ideological push.

Had it been about "hating" Pakistan and getting back at us, that cannot go on uniformly through an entity which you are also stating to be not "unified".

 

[Forsvaret]

The ONLY reason there isn't peace on Durand Line is because exporting the Taliban's ideological gains in Afghanistan into Pakistan is part of this ideological push.

Are you saying Taliban’s ideological "revolution" in Afghanistan is being exported here in Pakistan? I find it difficult to believe, since many of the ideological roots for Mujahadeen in Afghan Jihad came from US and Saudi sponsored madrassahs in Pakistan. So who exported what and where?

 

[Blain2]

So basically, Afghan Taliban are only "bad" temporarily. If tomorrow, their interests align with Pakistan’s, then we’d no longer consider people like Achakzai or Afridi "anti-state"?

Yes, this is state-craft. Ahmed Al Sharra of Syria was "ISIS", a persona non-grata to the Americans 2 years ago. This week he is being feted at the White House.

All that matters are national interests for a country. That is how the establishment of any country operates for the survival and growth of the nation. If yesterday/today's antagonists align, why have beef?

 

[Blain2]

So Taliban’s ideological "revolution" in Afghanistan is being exported here in Pakistan? I find it difficult to believe, since many of the ideological roots for Mujahadeen in Afghan Jihad came from US and Saudi backed madrassahs in Pakistan. So who exported what and where?

You know better. What some in the madrassas in Pak/Afghan, with Saudi money, were preaching to the cannon fodder never took to the masses in Pakistan.

The cultural makeup across Pakistan has been more resistant to the obscurantist thought, not so the case amongst the Pashtuns in Afghanistan.

As easy as it would be for me to claim mea-culpa, the reality of the day was that without these charged up foot-soldiers, neither the Soviets, nor the Americans were going to leave Afghanistan.

 

[Forsvaret]

What some in the madrassas in Pak/Afghan, with Saudi money, were preaching to the cannon fodder never took to the masses in Pakistan.

The cultural makeup across Pakistan has been more resistant to the obscurantist thought, not so the case amongst the Pashtuns in Afghanistan.

Sure, but Pakistani establishment did allow that obscurantist thought to fester in the first place, even if it didn’t spread to the masses. Now its blowback is coming in the form of Taliban which even the combined Western powers were unable to defeat in Afghanistan.

 

[Blain2]

Both Benazir and Imran Khan studied in British universities. Pakistani generals were / are simply NO match to their intellectual capabilities. Hence why one of them was assassinated and the other is on his way to meet the same fate in prison…

I am humbly stating this, I have known very many officers who could run circles around both BB/IK when it came to their understanding of Pakistan and what makes the country tick. Many people only know the ones who were in the media like Gens Tariq Khan and a few others, but there have been countless, fantastic overachievers and keen students of history/geo-pol.

Getting education in western universities does not give one outstanding "intellectual" capabilities. IK barely managed his education at Aitcheson and then beyond, from all records, he was an average student, BB perhaps a bit better. In contrast, we have officers who are toppers at the foreign National Defense courses and Universities.

The issue of BB/IK/ZAB/Junejo/NS vs. the generals has always been a personal one. It has nothing to do with this supposed "class-based" division that you are implying.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

The difference here is that all these political leaders can be voted in or out by the people of Pakistan (if allowed by the military establishment). Same cannot be said about the unelected people currently in charge of Pakistan. They’re simply not accountable to the people nor to the country’s justice system as per the recently passed 27th "amendment".

Military is doing this since ages, what is new about it, I have a lot of Proofs and evidence that in previous elections 2017 you so called Punjabi establishment allowed PTI workers to do rigging lots of rigging and stop other parties workers to enter polling stations, that your POPULAR AND ELECTED PARTY