Pakistan Engine Development

[GatlingGun]

he is literally showing a russin aircraft that the russians did them a favor of allowing a test of the kaveri, and the test failed, and then India decided to dump the Kaveri, it was the last time we heard of that engine. lol

You will also need a flying testbed. We will see from whom you borrow it. But for that your jet engine will have to compwlte ground testing and come out of warehouse.
Btw you Turks have really big mouth for someone sitting on American lap for the help.

 

[hyperman]

You will also need a flying testbed. We will see from whom you borrow it. But for that your jet engine will have to compwlte ground testing and come out of warehouse.
Btw you Turks have really big mouth for someone sitting on American lap for the help.
View attachment 64322

You don't necessarily need a flying engine testbed, there have been several engines developed that didn't have a testbed aircraft and were directly integrated into prototypes for testing, like the F135 engine for the F-35, never got tested on a dedicated flying testbed. Similarly the Original engine for the Gripen, the RM12 was tested directly on the gripen prototype. Same with the Snecma M88 on the Rafale.

The dedicated flying testbed is nice to have, but not an absolute necessity. They allow for saving time not needing as much ground testing with the initial prototype aircraft and for safety reasons, but again, not a necessity, especially with twin engined aircraft, which you fly with one engine being the initial engine and the second being the test engine, the Al-51 on the Su-57 was tested in this manor, despite Russia having an Il-76 testbed, b/c there are unique advantages to testing the prototype engine directly on the intended aircraft early on.

Lastly, you don't think Turkey can acquire a testbed aircraft? lol, TEI has had a relationship with GE, I literally mentioned in this very same thread that Turkey license produces GE engines, you aren't exactly breaking any news by pointing out the relationship with GE, I literally mentioned it as a point of strength for Turkey. And GE possesses a Boeing 777 testbed. Turkey also has a defense relationship with the UK and RollsRoyce, which initially offered its help in codeveloping this very same engine.

Put simply, Turkey has many options with regards to how it goes about developing the engine on whatever testbed and whatever manor it wishes. lol

 

[hyperman]

Tejas can fly with a Kaveri engine, and you'll likely see a Tejas prototype flying with it in the next 2-3 years. But that's not the main issue. The Kaveri engine produces a stable wet thrust of only 78kN, while the current thrust requirement for Tejas has increased. What was sufficient in the 1990s is no longer enough, as Tejas now needs at least an 85kN engine to support modern systems and increased payloads from recent upgrades. India is now working on a 110kN engine, which will be able to power Tejas, TEDBF, AMCA, and even trainer jets like the HLFT-42 Marut. Meanwhile, the Kaveri engine is likely to be used for heavy drones like the Ghatak UCAV.
This 1:10 scale prototype of the GHATAK gives you an idea of how large the actual prototype will be. It will be comparable in size to the B-52 bomber of USA.
View attachment 64313

"It will be comparable in size to the B-52 bomber of USA."

So you will be building an unmanned B-52, before the US even has a manned replacement for the B-52? and you expect people to believe this?

Btw I think you might be getting the 1:10 thing wrong. I think The initial 1:10 prototype was this little RC plane that they flew in 2022.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/1/17/DRDO_SWiFT.webm/DRDO_SWiFT.webm.720p.vp9.webm

 

[GatlingGun]

You don't necessarily need a flying engine testbed, there have been several engines developed that didn't have a testbed aircraft and were directly integrated into prototypes for testing, like the F135 engine for the F-35, never got tested on a dedicated flying testbed. Similarly the Original engine for the Gripen, the RM12 was tested directly on the gripen prototype. Same with the Snecma M88 on the Rafale.

The dedicated flying testbed is nice to have, but not an absolute necessity. They allow for saving time not needing as much ground testing with the initial prototype aircraft and for safety reasons, but again, not a necessity, especially with twin engined aircraft, which you fly with one engine being the initial engine and the second being the test engine, the Al-51 on the Su-57 was tested in this manor, despite Russia having an Il-76 testbed, b/c there are unique advantages to testing the prototype engine directly on the intended aircraft early on.

Lastly, you don't think Turkey can acquire a testbed aircraft? lol, TEI has had a relationship with GE, I literally mentioned in this very same thread that Turkey license produces GE engines, you aren't exactly breaking any news by pointing out the relationship with GE, I literally mentioned it as a point of strength for Turkey. And GE possesses a Boeing 777 testbed. Turkey also has a defense relationship with the UK and RollsRoyce, which initially offered its help in codeveloping this very same engine.

Put simply, Turkey has many options with regards to how it goes about developing the engine on whatever testbed and whatever manor it wishes. lol

Those countries had experience of already developing Engines in the past. Stop comparing yourself with them. Come down to earth.

 

[GatlingGun]

Tejas can fly with a Kaveri engine, and you'll likely see a Tejas prototype flying with it in the next 2-3 years. But that's not the main issue. The Kaveri engine produces a stable wet thrust of only 78kN, while the current thrust requirement for Tejas has increased. What was sufficient in the 1990s is no longer enough, as Tejas now needs at least an 85kN engine to support modern systems and increased payloads from recent upgrades. India is now working on a 110kN engine, which will be able to power Tejas, TEDBF, AMCA, and even trainer jets like the HLFT-42 Marut.

Meanwhile, the Kaveri engine is likely to be used for heavy drones like the Ghatak UCAV.
This 1:10 scale prototype of the GHATAK gives you an idea of how large the actual prototype will be. It will be comparable in size to the B-52 bomber of USA.
View attachment 64313

Do not open your mouth if you have no clue about MTOW of the projects. You are the same ID of that Patliputra who has zero knowledge yet used to spew garbage over the top. It gives me second hand embarassment.

 

[Michael]

You will also need a flying testbed. We will see from whom you borrow it. But for that your jet engine will have to compwlte ground testing and come out of warehouse.

Test devices in scientific research. They are designed to reduce risk, cut costs and speed up progress ..............
These devices are not necessary for the research object itself.

In aircraft design, wind tunnel tests are very important. We can use wind tunnel tests to obtain the best aerodynamic layout. If we don't have wind tunnels, we can also get the best aerodynamic layout by constant flight testing and modification. It's just that it's too risky, too expensive, and too long to do so. Just because wind tunnel testing takes care of these troubles doesn't mean we can't design an aircraft without a wind tunnel. We can also borrow a friend's wind tunnel for testing.

When the cost of designing and building these test rigs is too high, we prefer to use real objects for direct testing.

With Musk's rockets, he uses real rockets for every test.

China has just completed the construction of an ‘altitude test facility’, which will help China's aero-engine research. Until now, these tests were conducted using real flight vehicles, a risky and costly endeavour. After this, these tests will be carried out quickly and in a safe environment, which will speed up the research process considerably. However, this is not a necessity for aero-engine research.

 

[Magadh]

he is literally showing a russin aircraft that the russians did them a favor of allowing a test of the kaveri, and the test failed, and then India decided to dump the Kaveri, it was the last time we heard of that engine. lol

The Kaveri engine has undergone several tests on a Russian flying test bed. During these tests, Kaveri successfully powered the test bed and sustained flight at altitudes where fighter jets typically operate. Although the thrust generated by the engine is not yet sufficient to power a multirole fighter jet like Tejas, this achievement marks significant progress. Turkey is still far from reaching the stage India accomplished over a decade ago.

 

[Magadh]

"It will be comparable in size to the B-52 bomber of USA."

So you will be building an unmanned B-52, before the US even has a manned replacement for the B-52? and you expect people to believe this?

Btw I think you might be getting the 1:10 thing wrong. I think The initial 1:10 prototype was this little RC plane that they flew in 2022.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/1/17/DRDO_SWiFT.webm/DRDO_SWiFT.webm.720p.vp9.webm

The MTOW of GHATAK is 15,000 kg. And dry kaveri engine will power this drone.

 

[GatlingGun]

Test devices in scientific research. They are designed to reduce risk, cut costs and speed up progress ..............
These devices are not necessary for the research object itself.

In aircraft design, wind tunnel tests are very important. We can use wind tunnel tests to obtain the best aerodynamic layout. If we don't have wind tunnels, we can also get the best aerodynamic layout by constant flight testing and modification. It's just that it's too risky, too expensive, and too long to do so. Just because wind tunnel testing takes care of these troubles doesn't mean we can't design an aircraft without a wind tunnel. We can also borrow a friend's wind tunnel for testing.

When the cost of designing and building these test rigs is too high, we prefer to use real objects for direct testing.

With Musk's rockets, he uses real rockets for every test.

China has just completed the construction of an ‘altitude test facility’, which will help China's aero-engine research. Until now, these tests were conducted using real flight vehicles, a risky and costly endeavour. After this, these tests will be carried out quickly and in a safe environment, which will speed up the research process considerably. However, this is not a necessity for aero-engine research.

Yes very accurate assessment. Unless a country has multiple aero engine programs it's not feasible for them to buy 2/3 time use equipments. Especially for a still developing country like India.
Since now India wants to venture into multiple engines with various thrusts, the development agency has proposed FTB and High altitude wind tunnels.

GTRE Pushes for Indian Flying Test Bed for AMCA Engine Development – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[altafahmed]

Idk who is in charge of Pakistan's research and development but I don't think building engines for aircraft should be Pakistan's priority. I think what they need to do is start at the bottom of the tech tree, start building turbofans and turbojets for missiles and small drones and loitering munitions.

Build out the entire tech tree at the bottom, and if necessary get license production of missile turbofans and turbojets etc.

There is great benefit in Pakistan and Turkey each having a standardized type of product with parallel production lines, b/c as we have seen, in high intensity warfare, there is difficulty in production from a single country being enough, and also having all production being concentrated in one country is also a liability.

NTJ-V1 is for cruise missiles...

 

[MMM-E]

Btw you Turks have really big mouth for someone sitting on American lap for the help

We are not talking about Under license production but We are talking about indigenous projects


And all these Engines are nothing to do with American GE

-- Turkish TEI has developed TS-1400 turboshaft Engine without American help
-- Turkish TEI develops TF-6.000 and TF-10.000 turbofan Engines without American help

and Turkish TUBITAK has developed single crystal blade for indigenous gas turbine Engines without American help

The MTOW of GHATAK is 15,000 kg. And dry kaveri engine will power this drone.

India could not develop even ROUSTAM-II UAV

15 tonnes ? The MTOW of GHATAK is less than 1.5 tonnes

And tiny GHATAK is a toy to compare with 8 tons Turkish ANKA-3 or American X-47B or British TARANIS

Its tiny GHATAK with MTOW of less than 1.5 tonnes


Dont compare Indian projects with high quality NATO standard Turkish projects

 

[Michael]

Turkey is still far from reaching the stage India accomplished over a decade ago.

Turkey is not a fighter industry powerhouse in terms of the global fighter industry. There are many countries whose fighter industry is much more advanced than Turkey's, and they are certainly in a position to mock Turkey. But India is certainly not among these countries.

The Turkish fighter industry today has achieved a lot of tangible successes. Developments in the fields of drones and aero-engines are impressive, and the KAAN has completed its first flight test. Of course, these achievements are nothing compared to developed countries in the fighter industry, but Turkey has been making rapid progress.

India's fighter industry. PPT are very much in abundance, but we don't see too many real achievements in terms of projects that actually get implemented as planned. Though India assembles LCA through parts from all over the world, its very high crash probability discourages IAF pilots from using it. Even the Su30MK, which is well used in other countries, crashes heavily in India. As for AMCA and turbofan engines ..................
I can't bear to go on ......

Mockery with power is called pride; mockery without power is called ignorance!

 

[Magadh]

We are not talking about Under license production but We are talking about indigenous projects


And all these Engines are nothing to do with American GE

-- Turkish TEI has developed TS-1400 turboshaft Engine without American help
-- Turkish TEI develops TF-6.000 and TF-10.000 turbofan Engines without American help

and Turkish TUBITAK has developed single crystal blade for indigenous gas turbine Engines without American help




India could not develop even ROUSTAM-II UAV

15 tonnes ? The MTOW of GHATAK is less than 1.5 tonnes

And tiny GHATAK is a toy to compare with 8 tons Turkish ANKA-3 or American X-47B or British TARANIS
View attachment 64338

Dont compare Indian projects with high quality NATO standard Turkish projects

That’s not GHATAK

 

[Magadh]

Turkey is not a fighter industry powerhouse in terms of the global fighter industry. There are many countries whose fighter industry is much more advanced than Turkey's, and they are certainly in a position to mock Turkey. But India is certainly not among these countries.

The Turkish fighter industry today has achieved a lot of tangible successes. Developments in the fields of drones and aero-engines are impressive, and the KAAN has completed its first flight test. Of course, these achievements are nothing compared to developed countries in the fighter industry, but Turkey has been making rapid progress.

India's fighter industry. PPT are very much in abundance, but we don't see too many real achievements in terms of projects that actually get implemented as planned. Though India assembles LCA through parts from all over the world, its very high crash probability discourages IAF pilots from using it. Even the Su30MK, which is well used in other countries, crashes heavily in India. As for AMCA and turbofan engines ..................
I can't bear to go on ......

Mockery with power is called pride; mockery without power is called ignorance!

How many Tejas crashed so far ?
The Kabini core engine first ran in March 1995. Test runs of the first complete prototype of Kaveri began in 1996 and all five ground-test prototypes were in testing by 1998, while the initial flight tests were planned for the end of 1999
And so far I haven’t seen a single prototype of Turkish turbofan Engine

 

[MMM-E]

Turkey is not a fighter industry powerhouse in terms of the global fighter industry. There are many countries whose fighter industry is much more advanced than Turkey's, and they are certainly in a position to mock Turkey. But India is certainly not among these countries.

There are 206 Countries in the World
But except USA , Russia , China , The UK and France , Nobody can mock Turkiye

And Turkiye joins the big club in aviation Industry

Thanks to Turkish Military Projects which are real and flying

-- KAAN 5th gen Fighter Jet
-- HURJET next gen trainer Jet and light attack Fighter Jet
-- HURKUS trainer Aircraft
-- KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet
-- ANKA-3 flying wing stealth UCAV
-- TB-2/3 , ANKA , AKSUNGUR , AKINCI UCAVs
-- T-129 and T-929 Attack Helicopters
-- T-625 Utility Helicopter ... T-925 Utility Helicopter

Also Turkiye develops turboshaft and turbofan Engines to power indigenous aviation projects from Helicopters to Fighter Jets

India is not in a position to compare with Turkiye in aviation Industry