Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

NA71 said:
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29.933333333333334, 72.41666666666667
29º 56′ 0″ N 72º 25′ 0″ E

A0841/25 NOTAMN
Q) OPXX/QARLC/IV/NBO/E/090/250/2956N07225E050
A) OPKR OPLR
B) 2601010300 C) 2601311100
D) DLY 0300-1100 EXC SUN
E) FLW SEGMENTS OF ATS RTE WI KARACHI AND LAHORE FIR
NOT AVBL FM FL090 TO FL250 DUE OPR REASONS.
ATS RTE RTE SEGMENT
--------- -----------
G214/J112 MURLI-MOLTA
G201 BINDO-MOLTA
J166/J138 DIBBA-MOLTA
ALTN ATS RTE
------------
1) MT DCT ZAMBU DCT NITIV AND VICE VERSA
2) OPBW DCT MURLI DCT OLSUM DCT MT AND VICE VERSA
F) FL090 G) FL250

CREATED: 30 DEC 2025 12:17
SOURCE: OPKCYNYX

---
 
Cookie Monster said:
"Slight" miscalculation that PL15 would be used by limited number of J10s...
...it's also operational with JF17.

Also PAF has always dominated regardless. It's not about an individual weapon. If it was...then Rafale is also an absolute beast. In 2019, no PL15 was used...in previous wars...it was previous gen(less capable weapons)...what would be the excuse then?

The only downside PAF would have in a drawn out war against IAF(or any branch of Pakistani vs Indian military) is the sheer difference in size...
...which in a prolonged war...after much attrition on both sides...would start to show its effect by hampering Pakistan's war effort.

P.S. PAF has trained to use its "motorway" for operations if it absolutely has to resort to that. So taking out some runways(which is not as huge a setback as it's portrayed bcuz they can be repaired relatively quickly) is not really some big achievement.
Click to expand...
On the war of attrition:
Are there parallels to the way the VPAF ( Vietnam People's Air Force ) and PAF have defended their air space? Both air force's used technologically inferior aircraft to their adversaries, and both air-forces had a 10:1 numerical disadvantage. VPAF fought a war of attrition for nearly ten years and survived.
The VPAF largely used obsolete Mig 17s and Mig 19s ( with a handful of Mig 21s) against F-4 Phantoms, F-105 Thunderchiefs , F-111 Ardvarks, F-5E (ARVN) and B-52 bombers, In roughly the same era Pakistan used obsolete Korean war vintage F-86 Sabres and Chinese 100 flight hour F-6 jets, against NATO standard Hawker Hunters, Folland Gnats, Mig 21s, Orugans with a 7 to 1 numerical disadvantage . In both cases neither the VPAF or the PAF lost control of their air space.
On the performance of the VPAF.
7.5 million tons of bombs were dropped on Vietnam Laos, and Cambodia during the Vietnam War, equivalent to more than WWII, resulting in millions of Vietnamese deaths, with estimates for total war-related deaths around 3.8 million Vietnamese (soldiers and civilians) and significant civilian casualties, including hundreds of thousands from bombing alone
Every single VPAF base was hit and dozens of VPAF aircraft were destroyed both on the ground and in the air. Similarly most (Western) Pakistani airbases were hit by airstrikes in both the 1965 and 1971 conflicts with losses.
Point:
A war of attrition was waged but the outcome was the same, Pakistan and Vietnam survive today. A similar parallel can be drawn to the long drawn out conflict between North Korea and its adversaries. Similarly Israel destroyed far superior air forces in just 6 days of conflict in June 1967 and subsequently in the 1973 war.
The difference is that narrative of those conflicts was based on cold hard facts only, not on AI generated garbage by a Tik Tok addicted generation. The adversaries freely accepted the losses. The outcome was what mattered,
 
Last edited:
Baibers_1260 said:
On the war of attrition:
Are there parallels to the way the VPAF ( Vietnam People's Air Force ) and PAF have defended their air space? Both air force's used technologically inferior aircraft to their adversaries, and both air-forces had a 10:1 numerical disadvantage. VPAF fought a war of attrition for nearly ten years and survived.
The VPAF largely used obsolete Mig 17s and Mig 19s ( with a handful of Mig 21s) against F-4 Phantoms, F-105 Thunderchiefs , F-111 Ardvarks, F-5E (ARVN) and B-52 bombers, In roughly the same era Pakistan used obsolete Korean war vintage F-86 Sabres and Chinese 100 flight hour F-6 jets, against NATO standard Hawker Hunters, Folland Gnats, Mig 21s, Orugans with a 7 to 1 numerical disadvantage . In both cases neither the VPAF or the PAF lost control of their air space.
On the performance of the VPAF.
7.5 million tons of bombs were dropped on Vietnam Laos, and Cambodia during the Vietnam War, equivalent to more than WWII, resulting in millions of Vietnamese deaths, with estimates for total war-related deaths around 3.8 million Vietnamese (soldiers and civilians) and significant civilian casualties, including hundreds of thousands from bombing alone
Every single VPAF base was hit and dozens of VPAF aircraft were destroyed both on the ground and in the air. Similarly most (Western) Pakistani airbases were hit by airstrikes in both the 1965 and 1971 conflicts with losses.
Point:
A war of attrition was waged but the outcome was the same, Pakistan and Vietnam survive today. A similar parallel can be drawn to the long drawn out conflict between North Korea and its adversaries. Similarly Israel destroyed far superior air forces in just 6 days of conflict in June 1967 and subsequently in the 1973 war.
The difference is that narrative of those conflicts was based on cold hard facts only, not on AI generated garbage by a Tik Tok addicted generation. The adversaries freely accepted the losses. The outcome was what mattered,
Click to expand...
It's the "will to fight" that significantly matters in Pakistan -India conflict as Indian defence analyst Praveen Sawhney has correctly stated. But the questions out there is how far is India willing to go and how far is Pakistan willing to stand and defend.
Questions:
1. Is India willing to lose a few million lives and suffer significant damage to its infrastructure, to conquer Pakistan, retake Azad Kashmir, massacre and enslave the population of Pakistan and reconstitute an "Akhand Bharat " in a Indic-Vedic cultural milieu ? Or will India continue to exist geographically as it is while converting itself into a fascist majoritarian theocracy ?​
​
2. Is Pakistan willing to lose one hundred million of lives and near complete destruction of the entire nation to defend the dream of a state founded on separation from India?​
Would the present Tik Tok generation of Pakistanis prefer capitulation to India for a perceived chance at availing of the "goodies" of Bollywood? Will the present generation focus more on training to survive the looming catastrophe rather than count scores in the latest cricket match ?​
Or will Pakistan continue to function as it is, unable to do much for the Kashmir cause, and more focused on mere survival against an enemy that holds a 7:1 economic, military and population advantage?​
​
The answer to those questions is "blowing in the wind" ?​
 
Durgesh aka defence matrix has finally accepted loss of one Rafale

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Thank you Squadron Leader Muhammad Osama Ishfaq. Pakistani nation is proud of you
 
Shui said:
Regarding IAF's current situation, this is funny.

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Lol, I think this guy Defense matrix has an account here on PDF, he tweet a new post "explaining" his old post, what a load of B.S, is this the level of major Indian Defense channel? He doesn't even know that PL-15 was in active service since 2015.

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Shui said:
Lol, I think this guy Defense matrix has an account here on PDF, he tweet a new post "explaining" his old post, what a load of B.S, is this the level of major Indian Defense channel? He doesn't even know that PL-15 was in active service since 2015.

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It is time for Chinese weapons to have more advertisement
 
Vkdindian1 said:
No, it is not. Even if it is integrated, JF-17 radar isn’t good enough to exploit its full capability. But, I wouldn’t take it lightly and advise caution. Since taking an adversary lightly would be foolish.


2019 and 2025 were both skirmishes. Both sides were restrained more so India, to not go full scale. In a limited theatre one weapon can create an asymmetry which was shown very well by PAF in employing AMRAAM and PL-15. What if the initial strike by India was of the same nature as on 10th but much bigger scale? Critical runways taken down, radars destroyed and C2 nodes made redundant in the very first strike. So a skirmish and a bigger conflict can have different outcomes. 10th May was a very good peek at that.

It is being claimed that IAF was on ground for the entire duration and also that major IAF AD assets were neutralised. If that was so, what did PAF do to exploit that situation?

Nothing. Nothing verifiable except tall claims and fanboy brigade using Google earth images and claiming moon.

So the success on 7th didn’t translate into anything great after that day. This shows that PAF has it’s own limitations which were exposed even more on the 10th by Indian commanders.


Landing at motorways as a last measure is not like operating from a base. Motorways can’t give same level of support to carry out full blown operations as an airbase.

Damage to runways aren’t for permanency but to create a window of opportunity. It was displayed by Indian commanders by striking Sargodha runway. 2-3 more craters at Sargodha would have made it non operational for atleast 8-10 hours. Any aircraft at the base would have remained stuck. So it is not as simple as being made by you. It wasn’t done since it wasn’t intended. It was to show how far, how deep and how accurately Indian forces can strike.

Now, I am not claiming that a bigger conflict would have only positives for India. A bigger conflict can be messy and unpredictable for everyone.

Thats why no one wanted it. Thats why both sides decided to back down and agree to a ceasefire.
Click to expand...
Oh come on now...ur post I quoted was grasping at straws...
...using "should've, could've, would've" theoretical scenarios to downplay PAF's achievements and make it sound like "both sides achieved their objectives"...
...and the saddest attempt was pinning it on PAF having PL15s..as if PAF hasn't done well without it.

When I pointed out that PL15 isn't limited to J10s...but is also integrated with JF17s...ur come back is radar limitation? That's even more grasping at straws...and is just downright sad. Did u forget that JF17 block III has KLJ7 AESA radar? Which has sufficient range for PL15E(per open source specs)...
...and before u start having come backs about quantity of block III JF17s and what not ..PAF can use the radar capabilities of other assets...to guide the missile fired from another asset..so like I said..u r grasping at straws.

If u r going to continue with this Indian narrative being hell bent on establishing that "India achieved its goals" then by all means...carry on...but at least come up with stuff that doesn't have glaring holes in it. This is a defense forum...and a lot of ppl here have the requisite knowledge to point out such things.
 
Baibers_1260 said:
On the war of attrition:
Are there parallels to the way the VPAF ( Vietnam People's Air Force ) and PAF have defended their air space? Both air force's used technologically inferior aircraft to their adversaries, and both air-forces had a 10:1 numerical disadvantage. VPAF fought a war of attrition for nearly ten years and survived.
The VPAF largely used obsolete Mig 17s and Mig 19s ( with a handful of Mig 21s) against F-4 Phantoms, F-105 Thunderchiefs , F-111 Ardvarks, F-5E (ARVN) and B-52 bombers, In roughly the same era Pakistan used obsolete Korean war vintage F-86 Sabres and Chinese 100 flight hour F-6 jets, against NATO standard Hawker Hunters, Folland Gnats, Mig 21s, Orugans with a 7 to 1 numerical disadvantage . In both cases neither the VPAF or the PAF lost control of their air space.
On the performance of the VPAF.
7.5 million tons of bombs were dropped on Vietnam Laos, and Cambodia during the Vietnam War, equivalent to more than WWII, resulting in millions of Vietnamese deaths, with estimates for total war-related deaths around 3.8 million Vietnamese (soldiers and civilians) and significant civilian casualties, including hundreds of thousands from bombing alone
Every single VPAF base was hit and dozens of VPAF aircraft were destroyed both on the ground and in the air. Similarly most (Western) Pakistani airbases were hit by airstrikes in both the 1965 and 1971 conflicts with losses.
Point:
A war of attrition was waged but the outcome was the same, Pakistan and Vietnam survive today. A similar parallel can be drawn to the long drawn out conflict between North Korea and its adversaries. Similarly Israel destroyed far superior air forces in just 6 days of conflict in June 1967 and subsequently in the 1973 war.
The difference is that narrative of those conflicts was based on cold hard facts only, not on AI generated garbage by a Tik Tok addicted generation. The adversaries freely accepted the losses. The outcome was what mattered,
Click to expand...
While all good points...
...I would disagree slightly bcuz things have changed now. The previous gen aircrafts weren't as capable...and the entire infrastructure and doctrine wasn't as centralized as it is now...
...u could even theoretically miss the enemy approaching right behind u.

Nowadays with ground radars, AWACS, satellites(military ones), and generally very capable radars of individual fighter jets themselves along with much more capable missiles...
...those days of old like a base and hangers hidden in a thick forest for cover...are gone. So the enemy will for the most part see u(and u will see the enemy)...and that would lead to far greater attrition rate(on both sides).

For example current Vietnamese air force would find it much harder to replicate such success against current USAF..simply due to the above. Most likely current USAF would decimate current Vietnamese air force relatively quickly and establish air superiority.

Modern and future wars will have to be fought more strategically...strategic in terms of stealth(of body and electromagnetic spectrum for sources emitting electromagnetic waves)..bcuz that's what will hide u...
...and more importantly being able to take out high value targets relatively quickly like AWACS, ground radars, C2 nodes, etc...whether jamming or hard kills.
...this all means more expensive toys...more money required...and that too favors India rn.

..it's a very good thing that they continue to drop the ball...otherwise...Pakistan wouldn't have enjoyed the successes it has attained.
 
Update:
According to credible reports, Indian forces are attempting to keep the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and Pakistan’s land forces on high alert while engaging in non-combat or low-intensity actions. The apparent objective is to politically and militarily constrain Pakistan so that it is unable to take a firm stance or provide support to any other country. This pressure is reportedly not driven by the United States but rather reflects coordination between India and Israel, particularly in the context of actions directed against Iran.
@RescueRanger @Panzerkiel @AeronautIR @Irfan Baloch
 
Maarkhoor said:
Update:
According to credible reports, Indian forces are attempting to keep the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and Pakistan’s land forces on high alert while engaging in non-combat or low-intensity actions. The apparent objective is to politically and militarily constrain Pakistan so that it is unable to take a firm stance or provide support to any other country. This pressure is reportedly not driven by the United States but rather reflects coordination between India and Israel, particularly in the context of actions directed against Iran.
@RescueRanger @Panzerkiel @AeronautIR @Irfan Baloch
Click to expand...
This is what I have been saying
 
Vkdindian1 said:
No, it is not. Even if it is integrated, JF-17 radar isn’t good enough to exploit its full capability. But, I wouldn’t take it lightly and advise caution. Since taking an adversary lightly would be foolish.


2019 and 2025 were both skirmishes. Both sides were restrained more so India, to not go full scale. In a limited theatre one weapon can create an asymmetry which was shown very well by PAF in employing AMRAAM and PL-15. What if the initial strike by India was of the same nature as on 10th but much bigger scale? Critical runways taken down, radars destroyed and C2 nodes made redundant in the very first strike. So a skirmish and a bigger conflict can have different outcomes. 10th May was a very good peek at that.

It is being claimed that IAF was on ground for the entire duration and also that major IAF AD assets were neutralised. If that was so, what did PAF do to exploit that situation?

Nothing. Nothing verifiable except tall claims and fanboy brigade using Google earth images and claiming moon.

So the success on 7th didn’t translate into anything great after that day. This shows that PAF has it’s own limitations which were exposed even more on the 10th by Indian commanders.


Landing at motorways as a last measure is not like operating from a base. Motorways can’t give same level of support to carry out full blown operations as an airbase.

Damage to runways aren’t for permanency but to create a window of opportunity. It was displayed by Indian commanders by striking Sargodha runway. 2-3 more craters at Sargodha would have made it non operational for atleast 8-10 hours. Any aircraft at the base would have remained stuck. So it is not as simple as being made by you. It wasn’t done since it wasn’t intended. It was to show how far, how deep and how accurately Indian forces can strike.

Now, I am not claiming that a bigger conflict would have only positives for India. A bigger conflict can be messy and unpredictable for everyone.

Thats why no one wanted it. Thats why both sides decided to back down and agree to a ceasefire.
Click to expand...
Cope😂, it's you CDS who said that IAF was grounded
 
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