Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[kimjongun]

Not factually correct. It was an important strategic location that they targeted. However, the strikes that had touchdown had the impact conveniently a safe distance away thanks to our EW soft kill.

i can be that a scalp or a barhmos cant dug into the kirana hills...these are mountians not simple concrete bunkers under dirt..the missile first has to go through the hard rock then through reinforced concrete...something quite difficult for subsonic or supersonic cms...this was the reason the US used MOP on fordow

 

[Yasser76]

i do not know this - all i know is that 8 x Rafales are lost (Trump is not saying kills/he is talking about $150mil plus aircraft each) brand new - spanking new - beautiful

so do think he is talking about 7 x kills that includes 1 x MiG-29, 1 x Su-30MKI, 1 x Mirage 2000, 4 x Rafale?

or is he talking about RAFALEs only?

Even die hard Indians are no longer pretending he is talking about Pakistani jets....

 

[hnn]

i can be that a scalp or a barhmos cant dug into the kirana hills...these are mountians not simple concrete bunkers under dirt..the missile first has to go through the hard rock then through reinforced concrete...something quite difficult for subsonic or supersonic cms...this was the reason the US used MOP on fordow

Again, it isn't about destruction but inoperability. Strikes on such strategic location usually has the goal to block access to the facility instead of totally annihilating them.

 

[baqai]

I am 41 years old and have lived there 2002 to 2018.

my parents still live in Karachi, I know people bec. I have worked in a bank and have seen riots of MAy 10 and December 2007!

what have you seen?!!

not to mention disasters due to urban floodings!

born, raised and still living in Karachi, have seen operations of 92 with my own eyes, 49 at the moment so do the maths of how many events i have witnessed, you wanna question my love for the country?

 

[Meengla]

If India or Pakistan had any appetite for war, they would have escalated it in May, not backed out after 4 days. Things just kind of backfired too far, for India's comfort, so this time India will try it in a more safer way. As before, both will go for a media narrative, celebrate whatever they can do and then back out when things start getting too serious.
Its so obvious now that both sides don't actually want to fight, despite how much everyone wishes for it / suspects it.

Both sides don't want to wage a major war but there are domestic compulsions in India unlike in Pakistan due to the nature of respective govts.
And India has, for the first time since the 1971 War, attacked Pakistani territory other than Kashmir and will do the same again. India has figured out a sub-nuclear threshold and there is no going back on that for India and neither for Pakistan. I am afraid India will launch massive salvos of its abundant missiles to take out Pakistan's air defenses and air crafts before deploying the Indian air force. Pakistan's nuclear doctrine, I think, doesn't factor that in as the nuclear threshold.
But one good thing is the curious statement by one of India's top military guy where he mentioned that the Chinese were monitoring and conveying 'real time' movements of Indian assets being mobilized in May 2025 and he said India has much work to do on that. My guess is India was mobilizing many missiles to launch??

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

born, raised and still living in Karachi, have seen operations of 92 with my own eyes, 49 at the moment so do the maths of how many events i have witnessed, you wanna question my love for the country?

yes and no!

blind cannot wage a war

 

[Meengla]

A naval blockade though initially successful may be hard to hold unless Iran is taken out of the equation. Iran is likely to allow Pakistan the use of its ports and ship everything over land .
Capture of Karachi as the economic hub of Pakistan will be a huge strategic and psychological victory taking out 70% of Pakistan's economy

There is a sea change in Pakistan Iran relation since Israel attacked Iran a few months ago where Pakistan came out strongly condemning Israel while India didn't even publicly named Israel. Iranians have not forgotten that. Even Trump, after the 'private lunch' with General Asim Munir said that Mr. Munir was 'not happy' about the attack on Iran and Pakistanis 'know Iran more than most'. So there was Pakistan advocating for Iran and perhaps the sham tit-for-tat of Iran-America attacks were agreed upon in that lunch.
So there is a good chance Iran will help Pakistan in some way in case of a conflict against India.
But capturing Karachi city??!! India may try to capture the Sir Creek / Rann of Kutch and that's about it. They will sing songs for that for the next 60 years like they still do for the 1971 War.

 

[baqai]

blind cannot wage a war

time will tell who is blind, deaf or dumb

 

[Meengla]

so do think he is talking about 7 x kills that includes 1 x MiG-29, 1 x Su-30MKI, 1 x Mirage 2000, 4 x Rafale?
or is he talking about RAFALEs only?

Trump was obviously repeating the updated numbers of Indian jets down and he got his information from Pakistan's General Qidwai (?) who gave the tail numbers of the four Indian Rafales down not long ago.
It is remarkable how Trump is kept updated by his advisors about India and Pakistan and how he is able to remember things and use them to get under India's skin! He is very deliberately 'hyphenating' India-Pakistan!!

 

[samsite84]

There is a sea change in Pakistan Iran relation since Israel attacked Iran a few months ago where Pakistan came out strongly condemning Israel while India didn't even publicly named Israel. Iranians have not forgotten that. Even Trump, after the 'private lunch' with General Asim Munir said that Mr. Munir was 'not happy' about the attack on Iran and Pakistanis 'know Iran more than most'. So there was Pakistan advocating for Iran and perhaps the sham tit-for-tat of Iran-America attacks were agreed upon in that lunch.
So there is a good chance Iran will help Pakistan in some way in case of a conflict against India.
But capturing Karachi city??!! India may try to capture the Sir Creek / Rann of Kutch and that's about it. They will sing songs for that for the next 60 years like they still do for the 1971 War.

If India did end up capturing Sir Creek/Rann then its worth singing about...

However, realistically, I don't think India wants to "invade" Pakistan esp. as the end-game is not in Indias favor. I don't believe strategic planners in India will not understand that India doesn't gain anything by occupying Sir Creek or for that matter even Karachi

After all, all wars end on table (incl. where the other side has clear victory). And India knows that on table it will be hard to occupy territory beyond IB. Professional army learn lessons from victory and defeat and don't "plan" something just to prove a point or revenge. I believe Indian Armed Forces are one of the most professional ones out there, never crossing lines without consensus across the board

If members here believe Modi wants to invade to stoke passions, they are wrong (IMO). He has won three terms without on-ground invasion (across IB and Uri was localized action) and he has many fissure points he (more like his subordinates) can use to segregate.

Many people see Modi has an egotistical demon but any politician who's garnered respect, accolades and by and large enjoyed good relations with his counterparts over almost 12 years can't be uni-dimensional. By extension, nor is India's policy or perspective of every situation. Also, geopolitical reshaping is a constant exercise - sometime in your favor and sometime not. I don't think India has "lost" the improvements in ties with US and larger western world which started post 9/11. Sure Russian situation is tricky but India has recently signed pretty good deals with UK, other European nations.

All in all India doesn't gain anything from attacking Pakistan but the red lines are also clear (whether the world wants to agree or not). I don't see Modi/Indian gov going back on these if there is another Pahalgam style attack. Its kinda bad as India is now in a corner as their hand is forced but its the price you pay...

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

time will tell who is blind, deaf or dumb

good luck, then!

 

[Meengla]

f India did end up capturing Sir Creek/Rann then its worth singing about...

However, realistically, I don't think India wants to "invade" Pakistan esp. as the end-game is not in Indias favor. I don't believe strategic planners in India will not understand that India doesn't gain anything by occupying Sir Creek or for that matter even Karachi

So it is worth singing about even if India 'doesn't gain' anything? India does not recognize the demarcation on Sir Creek and wants that. But Karachi is out of question.

If members here believe Modi wants to invade to stoke passions, they are wrong (IMO). He has won three terms without on-ground invasion (across IB and Uri was localized action) and he has many fissure points he (more like his subordinates) can use to segregate.

From my cursory understanding of Indian politics, Rahul Gandhi's star has considerable risen after the Indian debacle from the May 2025 conflict with Pakistan. So, yes, domestic Indian politics is closely linked with foreign policy and also the Indian military due to institutional discipline AND due to their own 'Saffronization' is increasingly not as professional as you seem to imply in your post.

 

[gamaji]

actually 8 is the count of Rafales.

So, President Trump is going to move on to 8 during the coming days/weeks.

 

[Yasser76]

So, President Trump is going to move on to 8 during the coming days/weeks.

He was already qouted as saying "7 or maybe 8" with Rubio nodding....

 

[samsite84]

So it is worth singing about even if India 'doesn't gain' anything? India does not recognize the demarcation on Sir Creek and wants that. But Karachi is out of question.



From my cursory understanding of Indian politics, Rahul Gandhi's star has considerable risen after the Indian debacle from the May 2025 conflict with Pakistan. So, yes, domestic Indian politics is closely linked with foreign policy and also the Indian military due to institutional discipline AND due to their own 'Saffronization' is increasingly not as professional as you seem to imply in your post.

Jury is out on Rahul's star I guess. I don't see him as "Pappu" even with all the gaffes but he is certainly an absent politician. A politician who couldn't create an alternative narrative even in 15 years is not going to be helped by the 4-day skirmish (give or take). Plus what has he done post May - has he taken out rallies, has he sat on dharma to expedite arms procurement or indigenousation of aircrafts etc. Has he gone to the homes of fallen - all things a well meaning/hard working politician needs to do. He is not connected to the masses and is not working on it...

Also, see how many credible politicians of his party (young uns) have left - the only one holding on is Sachin Pilot (Scindia, Shergil and many others have left the party). At this point, there is no credible opposition in India - which is a worry but frankly not the ruling parties fault. It was the same case with Congress in 70s/80s. There has to be distress cause by the ruling class to usher in the change, a boredom factor, an over-confidence in their strength etc. - distress exists in few sections (more regional), BJP is never over-confident - freaking the workers give it their all without thinking about power (RSS traditions if you will), and many people are not really bored of Modi - same can't be said about Cab. ministers though.

Armed forces: On the ground/among the troops nothing has changed. All faiths are treated equally (in Armed Forces), paltan traditions haven't changed a bit. Not sure the "source" or "facts" you're using to conclude the "Saffronization" point. I had my schooling in Army School so have a fair few friends in the Army/Air Force and they haven't confessed any changes (which they can hide but don't think they will - its the one time they can rant/share thoughts without being judged/consequences)