Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[TAC]

There has been no doubt about that part. PAF did well on 7th May and I have accepted it many times.

10th May was the Indian day. They salvaged a lot.

The question is what did Munir achieve by not accepting ceasefire offer after 7th May?
The answer is - nothing.

Had Pakistan accepted the ceasefire, imagine where India would have been?
Lost four fighters at the cost of attacking few camps? Didn’t look good at all.

The satellite pictures after 10th retrieved a lot for them.

Where is the proof that India offered ceasefire immediately after getting smashed in the air?
As for India ‘retrieved a lot for them’ NO they didn’t. As much u need that to be true u know it just isn’t. Nothing India did made up for losing 4-6 of its top jets including its latest pride and joy, Rafail in its own airspace. The impact and optics of that epic humiliation cannot be made up so easily. Hence the massive & ongoing Indian cope via blatant lies of your shameless air chief, the BS about ‘operation is ongoing’, water war, wild claims about Sindh and all manner of NOTAM every other day to mention a few.

 

[Trailer23]

The question is what did Munir achieve by not accepting ceasefire offer after 7th May?

Ceasefire on the 7th of May ?!!

You wanna run that by me one more time.

You know, nevermind. How 'bout you just share some evidence of such an offer made on behalf of the GoI (MoE OR the Military DGMO).

Infact..., Pakistan didn't even flinch. All we did were make a few Press Conferences - that got much more coverage than the ones on your end. I think our guys kinda got under the skin of your people.

Come to think of it ... didn't you guy again attack us (again) on the nite of 10th.

The satellite pictures after 10th retrieved a lot for them.

Kudos.

Unfortunately..., no one seems to care about your "achievements" (outside of India). Oh its not just us (Pakistanis) saying that. Your own Media has repeatedly/constantly asked the very question: Why no one stood by us?

As for the Satellite Pictures/Images. Great. I'm sure Hindustan Times, India Today, TOI, etc will keep posting the damage for another 100 Years on their website(s) in the form of articles every second week.

Every Indian Household outta have those images framed on their wall. Images taken from something 1000 of Miles in Space.

That is so cool.​

Much cooler than having a few Sardar-ji's inspecting a Safran M88 Engine in middle of a field. Or a BSF Soldier making a selfie video next to a crashed MiG-29. Or seeing a Mirage 2000 parked inside a school (in a 20min video). Or perhaps a few guys wrapping up the parachute of a Su-30MKi.

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Yeah..., those pictures from space are so much cooler.

 

[Master Chief]

@hnn @Master Chief @arjunk @NA71 @PK781 @Yasser76 @TAC
@Mighty_Dragon_Strike

The war on this forum
Friends,
Don't know if this is the right place to make an off topic post such as this, but I couldn't find an appropriate thread to send this message. The mods (@Fatman17, @Oscar ) can delete this message hopefully after you have read it. I will take the warnings with a pinch of snuff,

Basically I am going on a long Sabbatical and won't be posting any messages for an extended duration, and hopefully permanently. I say "hopefully permanently" because I will only return if unfortunately another war is unleashed on us by our enemy.
At this point I have very little to contribute to this forum. That could change if the predictions of the unfortunate war in the future come true.
My last postHopefully my very last ) :
Here I am addressing the status of the members from our enemy country, to whom we have graciously given space to air their views. This despite the fact that a reciprocal courtesy is not granted to us on enemy defense forums. This is not surprising because our enemy does not even grant space to its own citizens ( identified by religion) to speak, and there are dire consequences for them if they do so, I will not comment on why the enemy members are given so much space here. That is the decision of the administrators of this forum.
Regardless, our courtesy to our guests remains, but as one who are intimately familiar with the enemy culture, ideology, milieu, mindset I do wish to repeat what I have already said elsewhere in a summary:
1. A polite demeanor, proficiency in English and a meticulous writing style, belies the true character of the enemy members here. It is unfortunate that most of our countrymen are ignorant of the "national language " vernacular in use in the enemy country. Reading and understanding messages in that language in their social media will reveal a very different, vulgar, revolting and evil mindset of the majority population. The guest members on this forum are exactly the same as their vernacular language counterparts. .
2. The enemy guest members are obviously representative of the population of their country which would be 85% . There are NO minority or politically dissenting enemy members amongst the guests here, The enemy guest members hate us and wish our total annihilation.
3. All enemy guest members here are paid operatives from IT cells funded and managed by the government backed so called "cultural " organizations. I have listed these multiple times in my previous posts. They co-ordinate closely in a group communicating via their mobile phones, tablets, and computers. Each post and response is carefully weighted proof read by the group and uploaded with immediate support from other group members. The enemy guest members are not individuals but well organized groups. The objective is psychological warfare to demoralize the younger members on this forum.
4. The biggest lie being peddled by the enemy guest members is that the impediment to peace is the actions ( "terrorism" ) by the Pakistani Armed Forces and if the Pakistani Armed Forces are weakened or better still defeated and annihilated somehow peace would prevail. Pakistan is the cause of hatred and war and the enemy is a "peaceful democratic" nation.
5. We all long for peace but the grim reality is that we are currently in the midst of "pause" in a generational war that will resume with the utmost savagery. Not many of us will live to see the end of this final conflict.

I think the mods will allow me to retain my membership so I will continue reading your posts, Thank you for your support and "likes" . I hope I do not have to return here to fight the enemy propaganda in the next war,
Once again thanks for your support, Take care.

Baibers, you are a true patriot, not to a country or politician or flag or anthem or to a particular religion even, but to an ideology. That ideology is immovable and steadfast, defiantly standing toe to toe against all adversaries, internal and external, physical and metaphysical. That is why they fear us and scheme against us both openly and in secret.

This ideology, this true guardian of our noble citadel cannot be defeated and they know this - their only hope is to make us or our children forget the ideology or to abandon it willingly.

Your warning is duly heeded and I hope for the day when we all arm ourselves sufficiently with the knowledge and the foresight to resist their attacks decisively and without fear. Perhaps we are nearly there, which is why the situation is at its most volatile and the enemy is at its most desperate.

Your knowledge will be missed here but please do take our prayers with you and do whatever needs to be done during your leave period.

By the way, I have always admired your choice of pen-name - a simple man from a long forgotten age, hardworking and resolute, who rose from the obscurity of being a slave soldier to decisively halt a tidal wave of organised evil as it spread uncontrollably from east to west.

We remain most humbly at your service.

Asalaam-u-alaikum.

 

[Hayabusa]

Let's analyze it with another perspective

Indians conducted operation sindoor to convey the message that India would conduct strikes inside Pakistan whenever there is any terror or militant attack in India or in Iok

Pakistan did its own operation Bunyan marsoos with objective that it won't let Indian strikes unanswered and India would be hit back

Now we had this bomb blast right at Delhi red fort with fatalities in double digit and casualties in dozens

India didn't do any strike inside Pakistan after it. There was not even any talk of strike against Pakistan on BJP owned Indian media. Now Indians can give us bullshit excuse that we don't have enough proofs after Delhi blasts to hit Pakistan but we all know that is nonsense. India never had any proof after Pahalgam attack but government lackey media accused Pakistan within thirty minutes of the attack and started talking about attacking Pakistan within an hour

What changed this time? The answer to this question tells us who succeeded in the four day round in may despite Pakistan wasted time in the name of restraint and allowed India to regroup and attack again. No pothole on some runaway from 10th may can change the fact that India didn't hit Pakistan after Delhi blasts and that shows how successful its adventure in may turned out for it

Agreed!

A bomb blast in Delhi went unanswered and a little bit of statistical common sense will tell you that India would have outright blamed Pakistan within 30 minutes.

Yet, no hype or warmongering, and the only plausible reason seems to be that Modi just cannot afford another humiliating moment. It's the moment where they chest thumped for weeks, and are then brought back to earth on the reality of the situation.

The reality is: India is not Russia/Israel, and Pakistan is not Ukraine/Palestine. Modi has already learnt his lessons from 2019 and 2025. Pakistan has both the defensive capability to put pressure back on India and offensive capability to target cities in India.

 

[PakAl]

I think Pakistan is already falling into the trap being laid for it in Afghanistan and the sponsors of the Afghans this time are those who want to punish Pakistan for hiding OBL and playing a double game after 9/11.

But regarding the nuclear option, do you really believe the Pakistani high command will eventually pull the trigger ?

Let India cross the LOC/international border then we will find out, the whole world will find out. Pakistan will defend itself from Indian aggression.

 

[PakAl]

There has been no doubt about that part. PAF did well on 7th May and I have accepted it many times.

10th May was the Indian day. They salvaged a lot.

The question is what did Munir achieve by not accepting ceasefire offer after 7th May?
The answer is - nothing.

Had Pakistan accepted the ceasefire, imagine where India would have been?
Lost four fighters at the cost of attacking few camps? Didn’t look good at all.

The satellite pictures after 10th retrieved a lot for them.

India can easily target Pakistan using missiles, rockets etc, we cannot do much, its a big territory, the same applies to India. We have full capability to destroy Indian bases.

 

[PakAl]

A very thoughtful comment! So there IS a trust gap and the citizens of Pakistan do not trust their armed forces in a conflict with Pakistan.
Do you think such a trust gap will be advantageous to the enemy in a situation where a breakthrough happens and either large portions of Pakistani territory come under enemy occupation or entire armed forces establishment collapses Pakistan and comes under enemy occupation?

It has happened to other countries. There was a trust gap between the Iraqi people and the Saddam Husain regime and the Iraqi defense apparatus dissolved very quickly in the face of an external incursion. The partisan resistance was sporadic with the Shia population collaborating with the occupation and the Sunni population opposing it.
Could this happen to Pakistan? Would an invasion and occupation of Pakistan be resisted by a divided population that no longer trusts its own defense establishment?

I am not suggesting such ominous events are inevitable The time to ask such questions is now and we must think the unthinkable.

That is the grand plan. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, is in full swing. If citizens of a nation can be turned against their own armed forces, this will be the breakthrough. This is why Pakistan needs stability, rule of law, clean politicians who keep peace and not make trouble, same with our security forces. We have hot headed people in all places.

 

[Oscar]

Yes, if we only take the publicly available information then the timeline with events you have mentioned are indeed the same as you have detailed.

However, even with the publicly available timeline and the official versions from both sides - there remains a number of claims and events that couldn't be independently verified - e.g. the Stimpson report mentions that they were not able to verify any drone incursion from Pakistani side because of the absence of debris inside Indian lands (contrary to their claim of shooting down multiple Pakistani drones).

The timeline and events I summarized in my earlier post are based on what I know but I'm not going to assert that as true, esp because the official version is not the same.

So this is where we'll have to agree to disagree also, I am not dismissing the publicly documented and the official versions - but for me they are merely a couple of layers of accounts of events out many other layers.

There are things that I have heard as well - left not mentioned. There are things perhaps Indians have heard - after all their air chief is publicly claiming 7 PAF jets downed.
So it’s better to focus on what is verifiable as “true” versus what you or I think is true.

 

[gamaji]

Whatever made you think I care about your praises for a self felatio filled douche bag is nothing but a hogwash.

Just wondering what qualification was the basis for the title given to you on this forum?

 

[gamaji]

LOL what consitutional ammendement ? Man, these army fanboys are so ignorant. This parliment itself is fake and formed by stealing mandate of PTI big time. Anything they do, doesn't have legitimacy and this is precisely why, they cut the powers of Supreme court and appointed their own judges who are not legally authorized to work under Govt. Anyways it will be an off topic discussion. Let's not discuss here.

Like every one else, you have all the right to express your opinion regarding the current parliament in Pakistan. But that doesn't negate the fact that there is a functional parliament in Pakistan and it's making the required amendments in the constitution. The whole Pakistan is working under the constitution.

I am sure there are many others having the similar claims. But those personal claims or opinions have no value unless proven on a pertinent platform with valid evidence and a supporting decision/ruling issued. Obviously PTI never offered any evidence anywhere in support of its claim of 'stealing mandate of PTI big time' even during the time when PTI workers were deputed as judges in higher judiciary. These black sheep were inducted by Faiz Hameed network after careful calculations to ensure the chief justices for next 15 years would always be coming from those political workers acting as judges.

Again, you, as an individual, can claim any or everything of your liking. You can certainly set trends on social media. But all that falsehood has absolutely no bearing on the system.

 

[Oscar]

Like every one else, you have all the right to express your opinion regarding the current parliament in Pakistan. But that doesn't negate the fact that there is a functional parliament in Pakistan and it's making the required amendments in the constitution. The whole Pakistan is working under the constitution.

I am sure there are many others having the similar claims. But those personal claims or opinions have no value unless proven on a pertinent platform with valid evidence and a supporting decision/ruling issued. Obviously PTI never offered any evidence anywhere in support of its claim of 'stealing mandate of PTI big time' even during the time when PTI workers were deputed as judges in higher judiciary. These black sheep were inducted by Faiz Hameed network after careful calculations to ensure the chief justices for next 15 years would always be coming from those political workers acting as judges.

Again, you, as an individual, can claim any or everything of your liking. You can certainly set trends on social media. But all that falsehood has absolutely no bearing on the system.

Again

On that subject -

Like every one else, you have all the right to express your opinion regarding the Pakistani losses losses to S-400. But that doesn't negate the fact that there have been losses to PAF and India has provided the required statements for proof. The whole of India believes in these statements.

I am sure there are many others having the similar claims. But those personal claims or opinions have no value unless proven on a pertinent platform with valid evidence and a supporting decision/ruling issued. Obviously Pakistan never offered any evidence anywhere in support of its claim of 'no losses in the air even during the time when PAF personnel could take pictures of all of its aircraft to show as proof. These black sheep claiming no losses were inducted by Daud Ibrahim network after careful calculations to ensure the Pakistani Air Chief for next 15 years would always be coming from those who claim no PAF losses.

Again, you, as an individual, can claim any or everything of your liking. You can certainly set trends on social media. But all that falsehood has absolutely no bearing on the truth.

 

[gamaji]

On that subject -

Like every one else, you have all the right to express your opinion regarding the Pakistani losses losses to S-400. But that doesn't negate the fact that there have been losses to PAF and India has provided the required statements for proof. The whole of India believes in these statements.

I am sure there are many others having the similar claims. But those personal claims or opinions have no value unless proven on a pertinent platform with valid evidence and a supporting decision/ruling issued. Obviously Pakistan never offered any evidence anywhere in support of its claim of 'no losses in the air even during the time when PAF personnel could take pictures of all of its aircraft to show as proof. These black sheep claiming no losses were inducted by Daud Ibrahim network after careful calculations to ensure the Pakistani Air Chief for next 15 years would always be coming from those who claim no PAF losses.

Again, you, as an individual, can claim any or everything of your liking. You can certainly set trends on social media. But all that falsehood has absolutely no bearing on the truth.

Got it, sir. No qualms about it. Thanks.

 

[Oscar]

Dee Dee from Dexter "Ooh what does this button do?"

On the other hand if they are discovered to be like Scrooge McDuck or Plankton then you have another set of problems.

 

[hnn]

There are things that I have heard as well - left not mentioned. There are things perhaps Indians have heard - after all their air chief is publicly claiming 7 PAF jets downed.
So it’s better to focus on what is verifiable as “true” versus what you or I think is true.

Yes I agree and that is why I put the "AFAIK" in front of my post and not debating on any detail that is not independently verified or officially claimed. I only mentioned what I know - I could be wrong on the details but in any case Indian posture post Dehli Event speaks for itself. Whatever happened during May conflict did not achieve India's goal of establishing a new normal.

On the other hand if they are discovered to be like Scrooge McDuck or Plankton then you have another set of problems.

Haha. Well there is hardly ever a perfect solution/policy since the human capacity and faculty to process information and make the best available decision is limited and then our ability to judge a decision is marred with outcome bias as well.

 

[Oscar]

Yes I agree and that is why I put the "AFAIK" in front of my post and not debating on any detail that is not independently verified or officially claimed. I only mentioned what I know - I could be wrong on the details but in any case Indian posture post Dehli Event speaks for itself. Whatever happened during May conflict did not achieve India's goal of establishing a new normal.



Haha. Well there is hardly ever a perfect solution/policy since the human capacity and faculty to process information and make the best available decision is limited and then our ability to judge a decision is marred with outcome bias as well.

I dont think it was just the events of May but also the efforts of existing lobbying and overall events unfolding including US , EU and Middle east that led to Pakistan achieving more effective diplomatic results than India ever expected.
If the Indians were surprised in the air they were doubly surprised by the reception of the "Junta" as they term the current system by both the US and how their dollar didnt go all the way as hoped in Pakistan's traditional allies. Ironically, they were more take aback by China's open hands(based on China looking at an opportunity to break away India from the US) than anything.

They have an extensive arsenal which they can deploy which gives them enough freedom to establish a normal of sorts but they also know the much like any conflict, the script you write is NEVER the script that unfolds.

This goes both ways, they were never expecting the relative cake walk for them in 71 as it happened to be , they were expecting to prevail but with a lot more losses and efforts instead of how it unfolded.

But, and not to dither - I also have an account from someone who was part of the then equivalent to the NCA that I know but also cannot verify for any one - that the decision to "get rid of" East Pakistan was already made in the 70s.

So it comes back to the question of "stuff we hear and are pretty sure is accurate based on the individual we heard it from" but since we have no other way and that person cannot be asked to give testimony - it is what is public and no more.