Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

hasssanali8998 said:
@Vkdindian1 this bickering a side i think the biggest new revelation is that rafales had meteors during 7 may , confusing bit why didn't they fire anything did they even detect j10Cs

credit to @flyingorca
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A cursory google search will show you that Sipri reports indicate that India did get meteor from 2020 to 2022 and rafales with meteor were flown against China when LAC was hot. This would tell you what you want to know :)
 
Vkdindian1 said:
I have accepted the loss of four aircraft.

It is universally accepted method of producing legible BDA. India didn’t produce one in 2019 and were a laughing stock.
This time it is the turn of PA.

Lie is a lie and so is the cope. It doesn’t change with year or country.
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There is no such thing as 100% interception.

While the impacts on Indian side are not of hangars and runways, there are clear impacts. Both from SH-15 and Fatah 1. Lack of BDA from PA is their fault but definitely, we had few videos and now some satellite images as well.

Should also keep in mind that this is just MLRS. You don't know how IAF AD would perform against multiple glide munitions and cruise missiles launched by PAF fighters.
 
Cipher212 said:
While the impacts on Indian side are not of hangars and runways, there are clear impacts. Both from SH-15 and Fatah 1. Lack of BDA from PA is their fault but definitely, we had few videos and now some satellite images as well.
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Yes. That is the whole point. Are impacts good enough?

Indian AD can’t do 100% interceptions. I am sure that they have a lot of loopholes. Moreover, why should they waste precious resources to intercept weapons that can be degraded with soft kill or which are already going astray due to poor accuracy.

It was the task of PA to find the loopholes in Indian AD and strike targets of value and then bring out proof. But they were just impacts, which isn’t good enough in these times of precision and accuracy. And sadly there are these digital warriors trying to convert those impacts to successful hits.
Cipher212 said:
Should also keep in mind that this is just MLRS.
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A little correction here. It was not JUST a MLRS. It was MLRS with supposedly very high accuracy and precision strike capabilities.
Cipher212 said:
You don't know how IAF AD would perform against multiple glide munitions and cruise missiles launched by PAF fighters.
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Well, that’s not India’s fault. Is it?
 
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Look at all Indians go "its a Python saar its a Phython".

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flyingorca said:
Look at all Indians go "its a Python saar its a Phython".

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So the BVR ranges on 7 May we're almost equal rafales have like 160-180km
Even if we assume PL15 has a range of 200km, because of superior systems as claimed by indians they should have fared better.
 
Meteor and PL-15 ranges are comparable. The question is why did Rafales not seem to have noticed any launches from J-10CP. Many Rafales from IAF and other IAF fighters shot down were quite far from the border. Simply EW at work. Not only spoofing Rafale and IAF assets but also AESA on J-10CP and PL-15 managed signal hopping to remain "stealthy".

Lots of Saab engineers and affiliated spokespeople keep talking Gripen up like it's a 4.5 gen fighter with 5th gen avionics. I must say, most 4.5 gen fighters are superior to Gripen in avionics. This includes Rafale. But the concept is similar, lots of flexible beam forming and hopping, signal gathering and active jamming/cancellation. SPECTRA does all that as an integrated EW and ECM/ECCM suite. Every 4.5 gen fighter has their own not just Gripen or Rafale.

Europeans of course are amazing promoters of their wares and are very talented at spending time and money badmouthing others.

Way too much blame has ended up on IAF shoulders. IAF is not as incompetent a force as presented by France and some others assume. They have exercised with plenty of airforces in the past and most say they are no worse. Maybe they do send their best but regardless, this was all much more down to the equipment and the tactics applied.

Do not underestimate the difference in equipment but it should be said to also not overestimate them. PAF had better tactics and was underestimated by India. 24 units of J-10CP isn't enough to go against 100 Rafales even with superior tactics and training. Especially since India has experienced this failure and will learn from it. Time for Pakistan to also upskill and develop counters to future Indian attacks. JF-17s need to pull a bit more weight. I'm guessing they were not as front line because Pakistan saw the massive IAF fleet of Rafales, Su-30MKIs and Migs + Mirages coming. J-10CP has the same magazine depth for PL-15 as JF-17 so JF-17 can do a lot of the missile trucking but I suspect they do not fly as well for BVR in order to climb and accelerate quickly from more hidden positions in mountains, fire missiles at speed to impart good kinetic energy and then turn quickly back to relatively hidden, low altitude positions.

So if JF-17 can't fly as hard, then let them carry 2 PL-15 each and one fuselage drop tank instead of the full load which weighs it down. If each JF-17 can give 2 PL-15 missiles similar kinetic energy compared to a J-10CP doing the same for 4 PL-15s, that is more useful in the real world than having each JF-17 flying slowly and lumbering with 4 PL-15s and three drop tanks.

Forget about arming your frontline first wave with any short range missiles unless they can be used to intercept missiles. PL-10 can intercept A2A missiles within parameters but most JF-17 isn't compatible. It's also quite a large and heavy missile so no point carrying it to weight the fighter down during BVR especially first wave BVR. Also no need for any more than one drop tank if the JF-17s are loitering for only a short time before engagement to just fire off 2 PL-15s.

PAF has over 200 JF-17s it can use as muscle. Same way PLAAF upgraded their J-11B into J-11BG with modern AESA and CEC with rest of the modern PLAAF platforms. Such a relatively easy and affordable upgrade (for China) made over a hundred near useless for modern BVR against 4.5 gen fighters into mini 4.5 gen fighters that are 20+ years old.
 
niubi said:
PAF has over 200 JF-17s it can use as muscle. Same way PLAAF upgraded their J-11B into J-11BG with modern AESA and CEC with rest of the modern PLAAF platforms. Such a relatively easy and affordable upgrade (for China) made over a hundred near useless for modern BVR against 4.5 gen fighters into mini 4.5 gen fighters that are 20+ years old.
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Next time worst case scenario would be a few intel(indian or z) controlled terrorists making some attack to provide a pretext to launch an attack against Pakistan immediately. This time without waiting for PAF to get into formation in air. They will try to target airplanes Jf17-J10s on the ground by stand off drones or missiles to reduce the air defenses of Pakistan.

Mock up wooden JF-17s can be positioned in airfields. Russians make paintings of planes too but they are outdated not as effective and can be understood easily from spy satellites by looking at shadows. China also uses underground shelters that planes are stored near the airbases as far as I know. Similar approach can be made to protect the planes. Indian self destruct-drones or missiles dont have long range bunker busting capability. They need to come close to airbases by planes to drop heavier bombs against the bunkers so a possible Indian decapitation strike by stand off munitions-drones wont cut it . Brahmos can be used as a bunker buster to destroy aircraft inside but depending on the depth penetrating the bunker underground is much more difficult than hitting a hardened-reinforced airplane hangar.

Another possibility that can be done to protect smaller bunkers is to use some small mines that activate with high ground vibration like when a bunker buster hits the ground. It can make the mines go off to pre-detonate the bunker buster missile-bomb. Kind of like explosive reactive armor but maybe you would need another layer below ground to place mines and explode when detect penetration from above.
 
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Jango007 said:
Crash at Bhatinda was Rafael based on engine and HuD plus million other clues …..now Indians have started to claim that Meteor was not operational with Rafael !!!!!….. agar meteor hoti to quch aur hota…..
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I have some very old Indian friends with whom I used to play games when we were little. They are quite sane and do agree on Indian losses, but their excuse has always been that the IAF has no operational Meteors, so, in their wording, 'PAF was lucky, it won’t be in the next round when we will be having Meteors operational', is what they have been bragging about since May.

This video has single-handedly exposed that the Rafale (BS 001), which was on a mission to hunt down PAF jets in case of any instant retaliation and to protect the entire strike package, was itself slain in an ambush by our J-10C.

@flyingorca Thank you and good job man for your finding!
 
aurelianpilled said:
I have some very old Indian friends with whom I used to play games when we were little. They are quite sane and do agree on Indian losses, but their excuse has always been that the IAF has no operational Meteors, so, in their wording, 'PAF was lucky, it won’t be in the next round when we will be having Meteors operational', is what they have been bragging about since May.

This video has single-handedly exposed that the Rafale (BS 001), which was on a mission to hunt down PAF jets in case of any instant retaliation and to protect the entire strike package, was itself slain in an ambush by our J-10C.

@flyingorca Thank you and good job man for your finding!
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Yeah credit to @flyingorca for catching it.

Screenshot 2026-01-05 at 11.24.25.png
 
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